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[Music]

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this hope radio for the masses Atlanta

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between July 8 1947 you are the airport

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who has an option applying this - found

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under is now in the possession of the

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other rig changed the game changer I

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occasionally think how quickly our

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differences worldwide would vanish if we

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were facing an alien threat from outside

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this is fade to black with your host

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Jimmy Church on the game changer radio

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network and a GRA the global ring

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I need your help to get to the Year 1985

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[Music]

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you are listening to fade to black with

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Ginny judge on the game-changing network

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[Music]

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good evening fade to black the smoke

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radio for the masses sigh how you good

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today's Wednesday August 28th 2019 239

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days into the new year just 126 days

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left we are live from a bunker some are

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in the middle of beautiful downtown

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Burbank California and I would like to

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welcome everybody listening all around

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the world all across the United States

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hither and thither to and fro back and

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forth up and down east and west north

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and south far and near

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[Music]

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this is fade to black for kjc are the

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game changer network 10kg ra the planets

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I'm your host Amy Church what is crackin

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how you do it yeah you just let me

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disappear then I came back that was cool

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huh

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right yeah alright continuing our

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amazing women week here on theta black

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night flurry tonight very special guest

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Kathleen Martin is here

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we're gonna discuss her new book

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extraterrestrial contact what to do when

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you've been abducted it's a great read

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you can see that I have read it this is

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a good book this is fade to black

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I am your host Jimmy church tonight

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Kathleen mardan this is our night three

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of our amazing women week here on fade

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to black and tomorrow night which is

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night for dr. Lynn khatai all right all

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right let's get out of here take our

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break when I come back Kathleen Martin

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and I are gonna talk about her new book

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it is right here I can't wait it's gonna

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be a great conversation she is amazing

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I'm your host Amy Church follow me on

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twitter at J Church radio email is Jimmy

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at Jimmy Church radio calm on the

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GameChanger network and kg ra the planet

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I'll be right back stay with us

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welcome back fade to black

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I am your host Amy Church this has been

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our amazing women week here on fade to

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black

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tonight is night three Kathleen Martin

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is here tomorrow night dr. Lynn khatai

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Kathleen Martin leading beautiful

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researcher the author of several books a

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featured on-camera commentator and

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international lecturer she earned her BA

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degree in social work and worked as an

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educator and education services

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coordinator while attending graduate

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school she is a master level

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practitioner of the quantum healing

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hypnosis technique her interest in UFOs

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and contact began in 1961 winner and an

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uncle Betty and Barney Hill had a close

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encounter in subsequent abduction in New

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Hampshire's White Mountains

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she has been MUFON director of

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experience her research since 2011 and

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is on the board of directors of the

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Edgar Mitchell foundation for research

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into extraterrestrial and extraordinary

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encounters otherwise known as free

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tonight we are going to discuss her new

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book extraterrestrial contact what to do

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when you've been abducted it is a

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practical handbook for anyone looking

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for guidance on how to comprehend

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evaluate and digest alien abduction

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memories into the framework of life in

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the 20th century and her website of

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course is Kathleen Martin comm the links

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are over two meters radio I would like

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to welcome back to fade to black

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Kathleen Martin Kathleen good evening

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how are you I'm doing well Jimmy great

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to be back with you yeah it's great to

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hear your voice you know can I actually

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say

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I'm just gonna mention this it was great

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hanging out with you a contact in the

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desert and you hosted the I guess you

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could call it the speaker's a little

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get-together right I was there I was not

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the host well I was there and we met and

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we talked forever that was amazing we

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sat that I sat down next to her said

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Kathleen can we talk and you said

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absolutely and we didn't get up for

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about 45 minutes it was just yeah yeah

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it was a it was an amazing conversation

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and I just enjoy hanging out with you

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and of course later on you were with us

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on fade to black once again at contact

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but it was just great hanging out with

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you I just think you're so dynamic and

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and you've got so much to share and you

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are here to to help and and I just want

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to thank you for all of that and the

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book is an incredible read and you know

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I get books all all day long that you

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can imagine right and I read as many as

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and and this one I couldn't put down

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that's the first thing but if I feel

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that way what surely the feedback has

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been positive what's the feedback been

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like the feedback has been

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extraordinarily good very positive

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people are more excited about this than

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any of the other four books that I have

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written so I'm I'm just thrilled because

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I wrote this for the benefit of

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experiencers and for people who love

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them and you know for the for the

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general public who is interested in this

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type of experience what I feel like I

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just rudely interrupted you okay okay

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because and and you point this out very

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clearly in the book and and we talk

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about it a lot on this show in that if

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you have an experience if you've made

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contact

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or you know the next step you know in

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abduction people don't talk about it and

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they don't want to talk about it because

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they're scared and they don't want not

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only to be embarrassed by friends or

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family but today in social media that's

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that's that's like everybody's afraid of

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that and they they don't know where to

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go and there isn't any resources and

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they don't know what to do because they

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hold it in and that's exactly the

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problem that we have today isn't it it

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is precisely the problem that people are

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very fearful of speaking with anyone

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they might have attempted to talk to a

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family member they might have talked to

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a friend and they've been laughed at

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they've been ridiculed they've been told

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to go see a psychiatrist or somebody

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wanted to know what they had to drink or

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smoke that night so you know we have

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been covered by a shroud of ridicule

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with regard to this field dating all the

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way back to the experiences of the

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contactees of the 1950's straight up

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through the Betty and Barney Hill

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experience and on through Charlie

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Hickson and Calvin Parker and Travis

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Walton and on and on and on it's time

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for the ridicule factor to drop this

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book I hope will lead to an

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understanding of what occurs and will

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command some respect for the individuals

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who are having these experiences because

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you know not all of them are having

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contact with extraterrestrials there are

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many different reasons for this but it

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doesn't need to be presented to ridicule

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people or to debunk people it needs to

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be presented in a way that will help

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people to come to an understanding of

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what is happening in their lives is

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and this is a very direct question is

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there any resources by the medical

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professionals out there or the

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government for somebody that may be

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having these memories or these

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experiences is there any open doors

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anywhere well I have tried very hard to

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open doors and in my position as a

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mutual UFO network director of the

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experience or research team and we are

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attracting professionals who do believe

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that this is occurring and professionals

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who want to know more about this I have

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two psychiatrists on my team now who

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have just read recently joined as

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consultants and who attend our monthly

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training sessions there are other

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professionals who attend the monthly

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training sessions for my team of 35

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compassionate listeners so it is growing

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I believe you know dr. John Mack did his

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best to educate the medical profession

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and the psychological profession to the

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reality of this but when John was killed

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when he was hit by a car in England

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there was an end to this and when I took

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over as MUFON director of experience or

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research in 2011 one of my goals was to

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establish a list of professionals who

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for referrals and to educate the

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professional community to the reality of

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this experience and I'm moving along

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slowly but I'm very happy

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that I'm moving forward why is it that

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society when when we know that the

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number is potentially in the millions

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right of contactees and experiencers and

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abductees but the number is very very

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huge but in a professional sense out

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there that they immediately and I'm

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talking about the doctors and

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psychiatrist and professionals that

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should be here to help in to assist that

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they immediately jump on the skeptical

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side they don't really want to hear it

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they want to put it up to psychosis or

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drugs or imagination and and that's it

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this did not happen right that is their

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stance there isn't a possibility of it

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happening it's an absolute no it's

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impossible it has never happened why why

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did they take that position so strongly

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in my opinion there is something about

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psychologists that causes them to become

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far more skeptical than physical

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scientists if you look at the studies

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that have been done periodically over a

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period of 40 to 50 years you will find

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that people at colleges professors those

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various fields have been asked questions

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about their belief in UFOs their belief

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in contact and always it was the

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psychologists who were at the very

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bottom having the lowest statistics in

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believing that any of this could

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possibly be real the physical scientists

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believed that it could be the more than

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50% the majority but in psychology there

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is something about attempting to

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attributer to the mind and those

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psychologists who are making those

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statements have not examined experiences

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of et contact because if they had they

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would have

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been able to realize that these people

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are rational they're stable they're not

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delusional why would they not be

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delusional about anything in their lives

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why would they hold steady jobs and

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sometimes in professional positions and

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be delusional only about this one thing

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that occurs to them periodically that's

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right and I think that's the point and I

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know I don't jump on I'm just speaking

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about myself for a second Kathleen I

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don't jump on every conspiracy I don't

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jump on every fantastical thing it took

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me here I'm still on the fence about

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Bigfoot I am right but I have seen what

277
00:15:33,730 --> 00:15:30,650
I have seen and I have experienced what

278
00:15:35,620 --> 00:15:33,740
I have experienced and I'm about as

279
00:15:38,260 --> 00:15:35,630
stable as it gets

280
00:15:39,550 --> 00:15:38,270
and there's no way somebody can look at

281
00:15:42,780 --> 00:15:39,560
me and say that I didn't have those

282
00:15:47,530 --> 00:15:42,790
experiences and this right especially

283
00:15:51,280 --> 00:15:47,540
when I've had somebody standing next to

284
00:15:53,410 --> 00:15:51,290
me for the or maybe even dozens if not

285
00:15:55,930 --> 00:15:53,420
hundreds that we've experienced a

286
00:16:00,370 --> 00:15:55,940
sighting together you cannot say that

287
00:16:03,370 --> 00:16:00,380
this did not happen and I know that the

288
00:16:06,160 --> 00:16:03,380
other experiencers out there that want

289
00:16:09,310 --> 00:16:06,170
to talk about this have the same story

290
00:16:11,680 --> 00:16:09,320
in the same experiences that I do and

291
00:16:14,800 --> 00:16:11,690
that that's it that's where it stops it

292
00:16:19,720 --> 00:16:14,810
needs to be taken seriously and it is

293
00:16:22,450 --> 00:16:19,730
not it is so frustrating yes it does

294
00:16:26,440 --> 00:16:22,460
need to be taken seriously but I think

295
00:16:31,090 --> 00:16:26,450
that the to the stars academy of for

296
00:16:35,350 --> 00:16:31,100
arts and science is moving forward in

297
00:16:38,740 --> 00:16:35,360
the direction of acceptability and of

298
00:16:42,210 --> 00:16:38,750
presenting accurate information to the

299
00:16:45,310 --> 00:16:42,220
public the mainstream public on

300
00:16:47,170 --> 00:16:45,320
television and since that article was

301
00:16:47,650 --> 00:16:47,180
written on the front page of the New

302
00:16:52,780 --> 00:16:47,660
York

303
00:16:55,450 --> 00:16:52,790
on December 16 2017 I think that there

304
00:16:59,670 --> 00:16:55,460
has been a little bit of a change in

305
00:17:06,010 --> 00:16:59,680
attitude and I am seeing at conferences

306
00:17:11,470 --> 00:17:06,020
more interest from academics for example

307
00:17:13,540 --> 00:17:11,480
and and I'm happy to see that and they

308
00:17:16,510 --> 00:17:13,550
have definitely and I totally agree with

309
00:17:19,270 --> 00:17:16,520
you they have definitely it's good to

310
00:17:22,569 --> 00:17:19,280
have a good an endless bank account

311
00:17:25,960 --> 00:17:22,579
write a cheque book because yeah right

312
00:17:28,410 --> 00:17:25,970
because you are able to you know get the

313
00:17:31,480 --> 00:17:28,420
right marketing get the right stuff out

314
00:17:34,090 --> 00:17:31,490
produce a good show elevate the presence

315
00:17:36,640 --> 00:17:34,100
that that's something that nobody that I

316
00:17:38,830 --> 00:17:36,650
know of in the UFO community is driving

317
00:17:44,770 --> 00:17:38,840
a Lamborghini do you have a Lamborghini

318
00:17:46,750 --> 00:17:44,780
Cathleen yeah neither do I right and so

319
00:17:50,200 --> 00:17:46,760
and I appreciate that they have

320
00:17:52,990 --> 00:17:50,210
definitely elevated it and gotten it out

321
00:17:55,300 --> 00:17:53,000
there into the public like never before

322
00:17:59,860 --> 00:17:55,310
and it's very exciting times for that

323
00:18:02,350 --> 00:17:59,870
and the one the one point that I want to

324
00:18:04,480 --> 00:18:02,360
get established here because we're going

325
00:18:08,170 --> 00:18:04,490
to be discussing this throughout the

326
00:18:10,450 --> 00:18:08,180
evening is I want some definitions from

327
00:18:14,470 --> 00:18:10,460
you because we talk about these all the

328
00:18:17,170 --> 00:18:14,480
time and probably don't define what

329
00:18:19,840 --> 00:18:17,180
we're talking about and that is you know

330
00:18:22,660 --> 00:18:19,850
what is an experience or what does the

331
00:18:25,360 --> 00:18:22,670
contactee and what is an abductee what

332
00:18:27,310 --> 00:18:25,370
are the differences and let's let's

333
00:18:29,320 --> 00:18:27,320
let's start there for you what is an

334
00:18:32,580 --> 00:18:29,330
experiencer no no let's go on the

335
00:18:37,470 --> 00:18:32,590
backend of it what is it an abductee

336
00:18:41,250 --> 00:18:37,480
well the abduction phenomena began in

337
00:18:46,810 --> 00:18:41,260
1961 when Betty and Barney Hill were

338
00:18:51,370 --> 00:18:46,820
trapped by a UFO that swooped down over

339
00:18:55,000 --> 00:18:51,380
their vehicle and then took control of

340
00:19:00,220 --> 00:18:55,010
the vehicle Betty and Barney removed

341
00:19:01,480 --> 00:19:00,230
them from their location to a remote

342
00:19:04,860 --> 00:19:01,490
area with tall

343
00:19:08,350 --> 00:19:04,870
trees all around opened the car and

344
00:19:13,180 --> 00:19:08,360
actually kidnapped them so they were

345
00:19:15,580 --> 00:19:13,190
abducted because they had absolutely no

346
00:19:17,919 --> 00:19:15,590
intention of having this kind of

347
00:19:22,990 --> 00:19:17,929
experience they were driving home from

348
00:19:27,820 --> 00:19:23,000
vacation and this happened against their

349
00:19:29,710 --> 00:19:27,830
will it caused trauma and especially for

350
00:19:34,840 --> 00:19:29,720
Barney who had conscious recall of

351
00:19:39,040 --> 00:19:34,850
observing the non-human entities and it

352
00:19:43,410 --> 00:19:39,050
went on Travis Walton was abducted it

353
00:19:46,990 --> 00:19:43,420
wasn't a pleasant experience he still

354
00:19:53,280 --> 00:19:47,000
carries a little bit of trauma so many

355
00:19:57,669 --> 00:19:53,290
of those early abductees are just that

356
00:20:00,970 --> 00:19:57,679
abductees and what's a contact II well

357
00:20:04,690 --> 00:20:00,980
we have to go back a decade from Betty

358
00:20:07,960 --> 00:20:04,700
and Barney to the 1950s the the

359
00:20:11,620 --> 00:20:07,970
contactees were the individuals who were

360
00:20:16,570 --> 00:20:11,630
having benevolent contact with space

361
00:20:22,919 --> 00:20:16,580
brothers and even today this has

362
00:20:28,270 --> 00:20:22,929
continued with the contactees who are

363
00:20:32,320 --> 00:20:28,280
having contact with individuals who have

364
00:20:36,430 --> 00:20:32,330
a human appearance who are kind to them

365
00:20:40,510 --> 00:20:36,440
who are nice to them who follow them

366
00:20:44,500 --> 00:20:40,520
again throughout their lifetime but the

367
00:20:48,430 --> 00:20:44,510
experience is positive and even with

368
00:20:52,150 --> 00:20:48,440
contactees we have individuals who have

369
00:20:59,610 --> 00:20:52,160
attempted to have benevolent contact by

370
00:21:04,540 --> 00:20:59,620
going out on ce-5 and having out-of-body

371
00:21:09,370 --> 00:21:04,550
experiences for example having astral

372
00:21:14,380 --> 00:21:09,380
travel to spaceships that sort of thing

373
00:21:15,280 --> 00:21:14,390
it is benevolent it's not terrifying to

374
00:21:17,800 --> 00:21:15,290
these individual

375
00:21:21,730 --> 00:21:17,810
yes so somebody like George Van Tassel

376
00:21:24,580 --> 00:21:21,740
even though he rode on a ship

377
00:21:29,140 --> 00:21:24,590
he wasn't abducted he voluntarily said

378
00:21:30,610 --> 00:21:29,150
let's go he was invited so that would be

379
00:21:32,800 --> 00:21:30,620
the difference there Betty and Barney

380
00:21:35,350 --> 00:21:32,810
against their will Travis against his

381
00:21:38,410 --> 00:21:35,360
will Calvin Parker against their will a

382
00:21:41,170 --> 00:21:38,420
contact D it's not against their will

383
00:21:45,660 --> 00:21:41,180
number one and number two it's a it's a

384
00:21:48,580 --> 00:21:45,670
benevolent experience yes okay and an

385
00:21:51,010 --> 00:21:48,590
experiencer which is which I love the

386
00:21:56,230 --> 00:21:51,020
word somebody are you ready for this I

387
00:22:00,880 --> 00:21:56,240
got into an email spat about two years

388
00:22:04,390 --> 00:22:00,890
ago I had said experience or on coast to

389
00:22:07,210 --> 00:22:04,400
coast and I got that crate that that's

390
00:22:09,340 --> 00:22:07,220
not a word you can't use a word that's

391
00:22:12,610 --> 00:22:09,350
not a word I said what do you mean it's

392
00:22:14,650 --> 00:22:12,620
not a word experience or I love it okay

393
00:22:18,100 --> 00:22:14,660
what's the definition of experience or

394
00:22:22,600 --> 00:22:18,110
well I love it too because John Mac

395
00:22:26,580 --> 00:22:22,610
coined that term and I think that it is

396
00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:26,590
an excellent term that encompasses both

397
00:22:34,750 --> 00:22:31,010
contactees and abductees into one group

398
00:22:38,710 --> 00:22:34,760
so you don't have to think about what

399
00:22:42,310 --> 00:22:38,720
word you want to call somebody you can

400
00:22:47,680 --> 00:22:42,320
just call everyone an experiencer but

401
00:22:51,760 --> 00:22:47,690
those people who are abductees who feel

402
00:22:56,110 --> 00:22:51,770
that they are are entitled to their own

403
00:22:59,200 --> 00:22:56,120
opinion about their own experience and I

404
00:23:03,070 --> 00:22:59,210
do not agree with those individuals who

405
00:23:06,220 --> 00:23:03,080
want to call them contactees likewise

406
00:23:09,340 --> 00:23:06,230
those who are having positive contact

407
00:23:14,170 --> 00:23:09,350
don't want to be called abductees that

408
00:23:19,060 --> 00:23:14,180
it simply doesn't fit so you know I'm a

409
00:23:21,540 --> 00:23:19,070
stickler on that kind of thing because

410
00:23:24,310 --> 00:23:21,550
people have called Betty and Barney

411
00:23:28,899 --> 00:23:24,320
contactees and they certainly were not

412
00:23:33,089 --> 00:23:28,909
and your comments that you just made

413
00:23:37,839 --> 00:23:33,099
about against their will and you know

414
00:23:39,909 --> 00:23:37,849
professionals employment and and what

415
00:23:42,700 --> 00:23:39,919
happened after that and ridicule and

416
00:23:44,979 --> 00:23:42,710
what people go through you went through

417
00:23:47,799 --> 00:23:44,989
that firsthand with your aunt and uncle

418
00:23:49,989 --> 00:23:47,809
Betty and Barney Hill and you're not

419
00:23:53,169 --> 00:23:49,999
you're not making these comments off the

420
00:23:56,109 --> 00:23:53,179
cover from stuff that you've read your

421
00:24:02,529 --> 00:23:56,119
family went through all of this didn't

422
00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:02,539
they yes they did with how bad was it I

423
00:24:07,529 --> 00:24:04,970
mean when it got went I'm the worst of

424
00:24:11,070 --> 00:24:07,539
days how how bad was it

425
00:24:16,089 --> 00:24:11,080
it was very bad for Barney

426
00:24:19,210 --> 00:24:16,099
not so for Betty she was very very

427
00:24:21,159 --> 00:24:19,220
curious she wanted to learn more she

428
00:24:22,149 --> 00:24:21,169
wanted to learn as much as she possibly

429
00:24:25,509 --> 00:24:22,159
could

430
00:24:30,489 --> 00:24:25,519
she talked incessantly about this she

431
00:24:35,529 --> 00:24:30,499
became fixated on it just really wanting

432
00:24:38,469 --> 00:24:35,539
to have the answers for Barney he wanted

433
00:24:42,399 --> 00:24:38,479
to suppress this he wanted to push it

434
00:24:45,430 --> 00:24:42,409
down he didn't want to talk to it and

435
00:24:48,969 --> 00:24:45,440
when Betty and Barney would come to my

436
00:24:50,919 --> 00:24:48,979
childhood home on weekends I grew up

437
00:24:55,659 --> 00:24:50,929
across the street from my grandparents

438
00:24:58,299 --> 00:24:55,669
Betty's parents and often times when

439
00:24:58,930 --> 00:24:58,309
Betty would start talking about that

440
00:25:02,460 --> 00:24:58,940
event

441
00:25:05,979 --> 00:25:02,470
Barney would simply leave the table and

442
00:25:10,629 --> 00:25:05,989
go outside and walk on the back lands of

443
00:25:15,159 --> 00:25:10,639
the farm he was attempting to avoid

444
00:25:19,089 --> 00:25:15,169
those memories he was deeply disturbed

445
00:25:23,049 --> 00:25:19,099
by his conscious recall of observing us

446
00:25:27,330 --> 00:25:23,059
those nonhumans the feeling that he was

447
00:25:32,289 --> 00:25:27,340
going to be captured is the word he used

448
00:25:36,119 --> 00:25:32,299
there as he observed them making some

449
00:25:40,930 --> 00:25:36,129
kind of preparations to capture him and

450
00:25:42,710 --> 00:25:40,940
run screaming back to his car and then

451
00:25:45,080 --> 00:25:42,720
having this series of

452
00:25:47,450 --> 00:25:45,090
buzzing sounds striking the trunk that

453
00:25:50,240 --> 00:25:47,460
caused the tingling sensation through

454
00:25:53,570 --> 00:25:50,250
their bodies caused the car to vibrate

455
00:25:55,970 --> 00:25:53,580
and then finding themselves thirty five

456
00:25:59,930 --> 00:25:55,980
miles down the road is if only a moment

457
00:26:02,390 --> 00:25:59,940
had passed with very little recall of

458
00:26:05,780 --> 00:26:02,400
what had happened in the interim and

459
00:26:09,290 --> 00:26:05,790
then the evidence when they arrived home

460
00:26:13,670 --> 00:26:09,300
physical evidence the torn clothing the

461
00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:13,680
scraped shoes the shiny magnetic spots

462
00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:15,690
in the trunk of the car the watches that

463
00:26:24,500 --> 00:26:19,530
had stopped running the broken binocular

464
00:26:28,970 --> 00:26:24,510
strap so many things that were so

465
00:26:33,320 --> 00:26:28,980
disturbing to Barney and things things

466
00:26:35,390 --> 00:26:33,330
really haven't changed today in the way

467
00:26:37,430 --> 00:26:35,400
that people have to deal with it you're

468
00:26:41,450 --> 00:26:37,440
still going to be terrified if it's a if

469
00:26:43,790 --> 00:26:41,460
it's a bad experience you are you you're

470
00:26:46,610 --> 00:26:43,800
not going to want to go public with it

471
00:26:48,350 --> 00:26:46,620
and if you do it's the things you're

472
00:26:52,010 --> 00:26:48,360
going to face are the same things that

473
00:26:57,230 --> 00:26:52,020
so many have faced in the past and to me

474
00:27:00,710 --> 00:26:57,240
we've gone through three or four phases

475
00:27:04,790 --> 00:27:00,720
of public perception because in the 50s

476
00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:04,800
with the contactees the public there

477
00:27:09,110 --> 00:27:06,810
wasn't that much ridicule as a matter of

478
00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:09,120
fact there was more fascination about

479
00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:12,410
the subject and it felt like it was okay

480
00:27:19,760 --> 00:27:17,730
the 60s it changed radically and by the

481
00:27:24,050 --> 00:27:19,770
time the 70s came around there were a

482
00:27:26,540 --> 00:27:24,060
lot of abductions in in the 70s and it

483
00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:26,550
was a very very harsh experience and

484
00:27:31,430 --> 00:27:28,890
what was going on in the 70s was the

485
00:27:34,010 --> 00:27:31,440
exact opposite of what was happening

486
00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:34,020
in the 50s and you would have thought

487
00:27:39,230 --> 00:27:36,690
that the public perception of it would

488
00:27:43,250 --> 00:27:39,240
have been more sympathetic and more

489
00:27:47,620 --> 00:27:43,260
understanding but it wasn't no it wasn't

490
00:27:51,380 --> 00:27:47,630
because the government was intent upon

491
00:27:54,470 --> 00:27:51,390
suppressing this information and there

492
00:27:55,700 --> 00:27:54,480
were individuals such as Philip Glass

493
00:28:00,409 --> 00:27:55,710
who

494
00:28:04,549 --> 00:28:00,419
read his first book on contact in UFOs

495
00:28:09,470 --> 00:28:04,559
in 1966 John Fuller's book incident at

496
00:28:12,370 --> 00:28:09,480
Exeter and immediately decided that he

497
00:28:16,340 --> 00:28:12,380
needed to do something about this and

498
00:28:19,669 --> 00:28:16,350
according to him but the backstory to

499
00:28:22,240 --> 00:28:19,679
this is that he was under suspicion by

500
00:28:25,010 --> 00:28:22,250
the federal government of espionage and

501
00:28:27,409 --> 00:28:25,020
they were following him he was

502
00:28:35,750 --> 00:28:27,419
associating with a man from the Russian

503
00:28:39,980 --> 00:28:35,760
embassy and he was followed in a boat he

504
00:28:43,149 --> 00:28:39,990
was followed in social activities and he

505
00:28:45,889 --> 00:28:43,159
knew he was being followed he even

506
00:28:46,820 --> 00:28:45,899
contacted the FBI and said I know you're

507
00:28:50,380 --> 00:28:46,830
following me

508
00:28:53,299 --> 00:28:50,390
they even searched his apartment I

509
00:28:57,260 --> 00:28:53,309
suspect that they offered him the

510
00:28:59,870 --> 00:28:57,270
opportunity to save face by doing a job

511
00:29:03,169 --> 00:28:59,880
for them I can't think of any other

512
00:29:05,720 --> 00:29:03,179
reason why he would do that and I wrote

513
00:29:07,940 --> 00:29:05,730
about this in fact fiction and flying

514
00:29:11,120 --> 00:29:07,950
saucers I got received all of this

515
00:29:14,480 --> 00:29:11,130
information at the American

516
00:29:16,490 --> 00:29:14,490
Philosophical Society in Philadelphia

517
00:29:20,149 --> 00:29:16,500
where Philip Glass's

518
00:29:21,080 --> 00:29:20,159
files are where Donald dr. Donald

519
00:29:24,260 --> 00:29:21,090
Menzel's

520
00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:24,270
the the other debunkers our respondents

521
00:29:33,680 --> 00:29:28,010
files are Eddie Condon from the

522
00:29:35,899 --> 00:29:33,690
scientific study of UFOs and Robert Lowe

523
00:29:38,029 --> 00:29:35,909
who was the project coordinator of all

524
00:29:38,930 --> 00:29:38,039
of that there was nobody man that's a

525
00:29:44,529 --> 00:29:38,940
black list

526
00:29:48,230 --> 00:29:44,539
that's why we're all working together

527
00:29:53,060 --> 00:29:48,240
research on this and and there was a

528
00:29:56,659 --> 00:29:53,070
concerted effort to call into question

529
00:30:00,740 --> 00:29:56,669
the sanity of the individuals who were

530
00:30:06,159 --> 00:30:00,750
having these abduction experiences there

531
00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:06,169
was a concerted effort to build a

532
00:30:12,950 --> 00:30:09,210
fantasy story around

533
00:30:16,790 --> 00:30:12,960
the real story filled with conjecture

534
00:30:20,030 --> 00:30:16,800
filled with speculation in order to

535
00:30:23,780 --> 00:30:20,040
confuse the public and remove their

536
00:30:26,180 --> 00:30:23,790
interest from this let's take our break

537
00:30:28,250 --> 00:30:26,190
right here our guest tonight Kathleen

538
00:30:31,100 --> 00:30:28,260
Martin we're discussing her new book it

539
00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:31,110
is called extra-terrestrial contact what

540
00:30:37,250 --> 00:30:35,010
to do when you've been abducted continue

541
00:30:39,080 --> 00:30:37,260
this conversation when we come back how

542
00:30:42,500 --> 00:30:39,090
Merrill's to be church this is fade to

543
00:30:46,730 --> 00:30:42,510
black and the game changer now que GRA

544
00:31:04,699 --> 00:30:58,250
[Music]

545
00:31:09,149 --> 00:31:07,019
welcome back fade to black I'm gonna be

546
00:31:14,549 --> 00:31:09,159
Church you can follow me on twitter @jj

547
00:31:17,479 --> 00:31:14,559
radio the links for Kathleen's new book

548
00:31:20,729 --> 00:31:17,489
holding it up extraterrestrial contact

549
00:31:22,079 --> 00:31:20,739
our over at Jimmy Church radio kommune

550
00:31:24,149 --> 00:31:22,089
click right there head over to

551
00:31:26,189 --> 00:31:24,159
Kathleen's website where you can get

552
00:31:28,589 --> 00:31:26,199
your own autographed copy I want mine

553
00:31:30,989 --> 00:31:28,599
autographed you know what's funny

554
00:31:32,279 --> 00:31:30,999
when I saw you at MUFON last month I

555
00:31:36,299 --> 00:31:32,289
said I should have brought my book you

556
00:31:41,339 --> 00:31:36,309
should have signed it but I want to talk

557
00:31:42,919 --> 00:31:41,349
about Matt and the reason why I want to

558
00:31:45,869 --> 00:31:42,929
talk about Matt first off it's an

559
00:31:50,549 --> 00:31:45,879
incredible from start to finish it is an

560
00:31:53,849 --> 00:31:50,559
incredible story and journey that needs

561
00:31:56,909 --> 00:31:53,859
to be talked about but the other part of

562
00:32:01,769 --> 00:31:56,919
it is it is a definite warning for those

563
00:32:07,019 --> 00:32:01,779
out there that want to go out and maybe

564
00:32:12,239 --> 00:32:07,029
meet Miguel what you wish for because

565
00:32:14,339 --> 00:32:12,249
that's exactly what what Matt wanted now

566
00:32:18,209 --> 00:32:14,349
let's let's start from the beginning how

567
00:32:24,419 --> 00:32:18,219
did you meet Matt Matt had gotten in

568
00:32:29,639 --> 00:32:24,429
touch with me in 2014 and he was wanting

569
00:32:34,739 --> 00:32:29,649
to talk to me about his UFO experiences

570
00:32:39,349 --> 00:32:34,749
and I was extremely busy as I am now

571
00:32:43,379 --> 00:32:39,359
and so I referred him to a colleague on

572
00:32:48,689 --> 00:32:43,389
MUFON experience her research team and

573
00:32:53,909 --> 00:32:48,699
asked him to speak with him and come to

574
00:32:56,459 --> 00:32:53,919
find out Matt did not speak to him he

575
00:32:59,009 --> 00:32:56,469
thought that he might be ridiculed again

576
00:33:02,159 --> 00:32:59,019
Matt had seen me on television and

577
00:33:06,059 --> 00:33:02,169
thought that it might be safe to talk to

578
00:33:10,649 --> 00:33:06,069
me about his experiences well he tried

579
00:33:14,159 --> 00:33:10,659
again in 2015 and I did have time at

580
00:33:17,009 --> 00:33:14,169
that point to to speak with him to help

581
00:33:18,899 --> 00:33:17,019
him to sort out what was going on he was

582
00:33:25,049 --> 00:33:18,909
very confuse

583
00:33:28,970 --> 00:33:25,059
and his story began in 2010 he was a

584
00:33:32,730 --> 00:33:28,980
commercial pilot who had retired and was

585
00:33:39,119 --> 00:33:32,740
operating a business at a small airport

586
00:33:45,090 --> 00:33:39,129
in the southwest and he one night heard

587
00:33:48,149 --> 00:33:45,100
people outside the hangar outside the

588
00:33:52,080 --> 00:33:48,159
apartment that he was living in up next

589
00:33:55,680 --> 00:33:52,090
to the hangar and so he went outside to

590
00:33:57,779 --> 00:33:55,690
investigate and when he arrived there

591
00:34:00,810 --> 00:33:57,789
were a few people standing around

592
00:34:04,950 --> 00:34:00,820
pointing at the sky and they were saying

593
00:34:08,190 --> 00:34:04,960
see the UFOs up there Matt had never

594
00:34:11,069 --> 00:34:08,200
seen a UFO before it had no interest in

595
00:34:14,819 --> 00:34:11,079
the topic and he said that it was the

596
00:34:18,809 --> 00:34:14,829
purest brightest white light that he had

597
00:34:24,119 --> 00:34:18,819
ever seen and it caused him to develop

598
00:34:29,520 --> 00:34:24,129
an interest in UFOs and he decided to

599
00:34:31,770 --> 00:34:29,530
try to call in craft and so he had a

600
00:34:37,470 --> 00:34:31,780
control tower he went up in the tower

601
00:34:42,720 --> 00:34:37,480
and he started attempting to call in

602
00:34:48,839 --> 00:34:42,730
UFOs using laser pointers and other

603
00:34:54,210 --> 00:34:48,849
things and eventually he did see another

604
00:34:59,300 --> 00:34:54,220
UFO that came in and he had the desire

605
00:35:02,970 --> 00:34:59,310
to sit down and have a nice conversation

606
00:35:06,720 --> 00:35:02,980
with them to to ask them what they were

607
00:35:09,630 --> 00:35:06,730
doing here to learn about them and to

608
00:35:12,660 --> 00:35:09,640
tell them about what life on earth was

609
00:35:19,829 --> 00:35:12,670
about he was completely ignorant about

610
00:35:22,589 --> 00:35:19,839
this topic and they did land take him

611
00:35:25,859 --> 00:35:22,599
yeah yeah yeah let's uh he did a couple

612
00:35:28,290 --> 00:35:25,869
of interesting things you know he's got

613
00:35:30,030 --> 00:35:28,300
an airstrip at his disposal that's the

614
00:35:30,850 --> 00:35:30,040
first thing he's got a hangar he's got a

615
00:35:35,820 --> 00:35:30,860
control

616
00:35:39,760 --> 00:35:35,830
or he lives there so he builds

617
00:35:43,510 --> 00:35:39,770
instructions right lights and and arrows

618
00:35:48,990 --> 00:35:43,520
x marks the spot he builds a landing

619
00:35:51,940 --> 00:35:49,000
right he went through great lengths to

620
00:35:53,560 --> 00:35:51,950
to you know to try to attract them it

621
00:35:57,460 --> 00:35:53,570
kind of reminds me of the whole cargo

622
00:36:00,430 --> 00:35:57,470
cult aspect of this you know where

623
00:36:02,500 --> 00:36:00,440
you'll do anything you can to to get

624
00:36:04,570 --> 00:36:02,510
them to come back and to attract them

625
00:36:09,760 --> 00:36:04,580
and that's exactly what he did didn't he

626
00:36:14,440 --> 00:36:09,770
that is exactly what he did but when

627
00:36:18,880 --> 00:36:14,450
they came back and they came back time

628
00:36:23,350 --> 00:36:18,890
and time again and they started to take

629
00:36:27,520 --> 00:36:23,360
him he changed his mind he wanted to end

630
00:36:33,510 --> 00:36:27,530
it and then he was driving around the

631
00:36:37,570 --> 00:36:33,520
airport on a four-wheeler with a gun and

632
00:36:40,660 --> 00:36:37,580
started shooting at them he called the

633
00:36:44,890 --> 00:36:40,670
mutual UFO network at that time and

634
00:36:48,700 --> 00:36:44,900
there was a field investigator who went

635
00:36:51,940 --> 00:36:48,710
out and actually did observe a craft in

636
00:36:53,610 --> 00:36:51,950
the sky so I was pretty intrigued by

637
00:36:57,610 --> 00:36:53,620
that when I began this investigation

638
00:37:04,120 --> 00:36:57,620
because I knew about muffinz involvement

639
00:37:08,220 --> 00:37:04,130
in this and as time went on things were

640
00:37:14,250 --> 00:37:08,230
becoming more and more difficult for him

641
00:37:17,950 --> 00:37:14,260
he ended up chaining himself to the wall

642
00:37:21,940 --> 00:37:17,960
in a room where he had boarded up the

643
00:37:26,140 --> 00:37:21,950
windows when he went to bed at night to

644
00:37:28,840 --> 00:37:26,150
try to prevent them from taking him one

645
00:37:31,300 --> 00:37:28,850
night he found himself a couple of miles

646
00:37:32,790 --> 00:37:31,310
down the road dressed only in his

647
00:37:38,710 --> 00:37:32,800
underwear

648
00:37:43,800 --> 00:37:38,720
another night there was one that came

649
00:37:45,549 --> 00:37:43,810
into his bedroom and he had a pistol and

650
00:37:49,539 --> 00:37:45,559
he shot

651
00:37:53,799 --> 00:37:49,549
and it disappeared in a blinding flash

652
00:37:57,750 --> 00:37:53,809
of blue light and it left a yellow

653
00:38:01,420 --> 00:37:57,760
substance on the floor and the bed's

654
00:38:05,980 --> 00:38:01,430
foot of the bed and bullets in his

655
00:38:08,740 --> 00:38:05,990
closet door and through his clothing let

656
00:38:11,740 --> 00:38:08,750
me and let's stop right there for a

657
00:38:14,880 --> 00:38:11,750
second because things at this point

658
00:38:17,609 --> 00:38:14,890
sound pretty crazy this is nothing

659
00:38:25,380 --> 00:38:17,619
compared to what happens next for him

660
00:38:30,089 --> 00:38:25,390
and let's back up now you you were sent

661
00:38:33,069 --> 00:38:30,099
literally thousands of files format of

662
00:38:37,059 --> 00:38:33,079
photographs that he had taken of lights

663
00:38:38,740 --> 00:38:37,069
and you had to go through I've done the

664
00:38:42,370 --> 00:38:38,750
same thing too as well I know exactly

665
00:38:46,210 --> 00:38:42,380
what you went through and and you wrote

666
00:38:49,599 --> 00:38:46,220
him back and he said you know send me

667
00:38:52,450 --> 00:38:49,609
the best that you've got right 77 send

668
00:38:56,440 --> 00:38:52,460
me your top ten and so he sent you a few

669
00:38:58,690 --> 00:38:56,450
more dozen right of his best shot but a

670
00:39:02,650 --> 00:38:58,700
couple of these shots and one of them is

671
00:39:06,130 --> 00:39:02,660
in the book by the way stood out didn't

672
00:39:08,859 --> 00:39:06,140
it yes it absolutely did and it would

673
00:39:13,839 --> 00:39:08,869
had also been published in a in a local

674
00:39:18,220 --> 00:39:13,849
newspaper in his area so it did stand

675
00:39:22,780 --> 00:39:18,230
out it looked like it could be a landed

676
00:39:25,510 --> 00:39:22,790
UFO and it had the right colors yeah I

677
00:39:30,549 --> 00:39:25,520
had different photo analysts look at it

678
00:39:33,010 --> 00:39:30,559
and they had differing opinions but the

679
00:39:36,789 --> 00:39:33,020
colors were the thing that really stood

680
00:39:39,700 --> 00:39:36,799
out is being highly unusual and I want

681
00:39:44,530 --> 00:39:39,710
to specifically talk about that moment

682
00:39:47,770 --> 00:39:44,540
because he again here's something see

683
00:39:55,240 --> 00:39:47,780
something walks outside and he describes

684
00:39:58,180 --> 00:39:55,250
it as a hotdog bun right I thought that

685
00:39:58,840 --> 00:39:58,190
was very we always hear cigar shape or

686
00:40:02,620 --> 00:39:58,850
whatever

687
00:40:06,190 --> 00:40:02,630
he says it looked like a 85-foot hotdog

688
00:40:10,360 --> 00:40:06,200
bun yes that was one of the craft that

689
00:40:12,490 --> 00:40:10,370
that landed on his property now when he

690
00:40:15,940 --> 00:40:12,500
walked up to it and touched it how did

691
00:40:20,200 --> 00:40:15,950
he describe it he said that it was very

692
00:40:23,740 --> 00:40:20,210
smooth and very glossy and there were no

693
00:40:27,220 --> 00:40:23,750
seams there were no nuts or bolts or

694
00:40:30,640 --> 00:40:27,230
anything that he could identify as

695
00:40:33,280 --> 00:40:30,650
coming from our planet and using our

696
00:40:36,900 --> 00:40:33,290
technology he tried to get inside that

697
00:40:40,810 --> 00:40:36,910
was his that's what he was trying to do

698
00:40:43,030 --> 00:40:40,820
he would have been crazy to do that he

699
00:40:46,660 --> 00:40:43,040
was trying to get inside and so here he

700
00:40:48,670 --> 00:40:46,670
walks around the entire craft he said it

701
00:40:50,710 --> 00:40:48,680
looked like glass right and he walks

702
00:40:53,980 --> 00:40:50,720
around can't can't find a door can't

703
00:40:55,750 --> 00:40:53,990
find anything and then he finds out that

704
00:40:57,400 --> 00:40:55,760
it wasn't even he thought it was sitting

705
00:41:01,660 --> 00:40:57,410
on the ground and it wasn't it was

706
00:41:04,000 --> 00:41:01,670
actually hovering and he runs inside to

707
00:41:08,110 --> 00:41:04,010
to get his camera right thing to do what

708
00:41:12,420 --> 00:41:08,120
happens next by the time he got outside

709
00:41:15,190 --> 00:41:12,430
it was gone incredible that was

710
00:41:20,020 --> 00:41:15,200
incredible but there were others that

711
00:41:23,350 --> 00:41:20,030
came as well now what he probably did

712
00:41:26,950 --> 00:41:23,360
and this is where the the warning comes

713
00:41:29,020 --> 00:41:26,960
out to everybody he may have had some

714
00:41:33,010 --> 00:41:29,030
kind of benevolent experience in the

715
00:41:35,980 --> 00:41:33,020
very very beginning but it seems that he

716
00:41:39,400 --> 00:41:35,990
might have opened up a portal or maybe

717
00:41:42,430 --> 00:41:39,410
some type of directional beacon to

718
00:41:45,220 --> 00:41:42,440
anybody to come down to that point was

719
00:41:47,760 --> 00:41:45,230
that the mistake that he made that was

720
00:41:51,370 --> 00:41:47,770
the mistakes that he made because he

721
00:41:53,710 --> 00:41:51,380
eventually began to have experiences

722
00:41:58,600 --> 00:41:53,720
that I can only compare to the

723
00:42:02,560 --> 00:41:58,610
skinwalker ranch Timeslips seeing ghosts

724
00:42:07,990 --> 00:42:02,570
and having what appeared to be demonic

725
00:42:11,390 --> 00:42:08,000
activity he describes you know his

726
00:42:15,680 --> 00:42:11,400
encounters and all you could think of

727
00:42:20,170 --> 00:42:15,690
is he is being visited by all kinds of

728
00:42:23,870 --> 00:42:20,180
interdimensional beings and entities

729
00:42:27,769 --> 00:42:23,880
from across the spectrum everybody was

730
00:42:30,410 --> 00:42:27,779
coming by for a visit it seems that way

731
00:42:33,140 --> 00:42:30,420
and and when he told his family they

732
00:42:38,089 --> 00:42:33,150
thought he needed psychiatric help

733
00:42:41,660 --> 00:42:38,099
and he said to his mother just give me a

734
00:42:43,220 --> 00:42:41,670
chance to prove this is real and she

735
00:42:47,779 --> 00:42:43,230
agreed to do that

736
00:42:50,539 --> 00:42:47,789
and she stayed with him and she did see

737
00:42:55,430 --> 00:42:50,549
some of this and one of the things that

738
00:42:59,630 --> 00:42:55,440
she saw was looking out on the airport

739
00:43:03,130 --> 00:42:59,640
and where there should have been a

740
00:43:08,059 --> 00:43:03,140
runway there was a grassy savanna

741
00:43:11,779 --> 00:43:08,069
with mammoths grazing so there is a time

742
00:43:14,660 --> 00:43:11,789
slip and and that was occurring at the

743
00:43:17,239 --> 00:43:14,670
skinwalker ranch as well there's

744
00:43:21,410 --> 00:43:17,249
something that is occurring where these

745
00:43:25,279 --> 00:43:21,420
portals are not only interdimensional

746
00:43:28,009 --> 00:43:25,289
but they seem to be able to move back in

747
00:43:34,430 --> 00:43:28,019
time forward

748
00:43:40,249 --> 00:43:34,440
Ya Ya Ya Ya Ya Ya and there was I have a

749
00:43:42,499 --> 00:43:40,259
very very advanced laser pointer right I

750
00:43:49,489 --> 00:43:42,509
have a you can imagine what I have right

751
00:43:54,319 --> 00:43:49,499
well I've got one of those and he he

752
00:43:56,089 --> 00:43:54,329
used his and he was he I don't know how

753
00:43:59,180 --> 00:43:56,099
to explain this because I think laser

754
00:44:01,039 --> 00:43:59,190
pointers are needed if you're gonna be

755
00:44:03,620 --> 00:44:01,049
doing a sky watch and you're looking up

756
00:44:05,509 --> 00:44:03,630
at the sky and you see an object in your

757
00:44:07,130 --> 00:44:05,519
night vision but nobody else can see it

758
00:44:09,079 --> 00:44:07,140
well you can locate it and show

759
00:44:10,819 --> 00:44:09,089
everybody else where to go and look with

760
00:44:14,539 --> 00:44:10,829
the laser pointer we do it all the time

761
00:44:16,370 --> 00:44:14,549
it's it's one of the tools when you do a

762
00:44:20,690 --> 00:44:16,380
sky watch with a group of people you

763
00:44:23,509 --> 00:44:20,700
need to have it well he he was just out

764
00:44:24,710 --> 00:44:23,519
there going willy-nilly with the laser

765
00:44:27,200 --> 00:44:24,720
pointer and

766
00:44:35,480 --> 00:44:27,210
he kind of got he kind of got slapped

767
00:44:40,280 --> 00:44:35,490
didn't he well he he was informed in a

768
00:44:44,920 --> 00:44:40,290
in a way that they did not want him to

769
00:44:49,190 --> 00:44:44,930
be projecting his lazy laser pointer

770
00:44:52,940 --> 00:44:49,200
into their craft he got warned he got

771
00:44:57,589 --> 00:44:52,950
warned yes yes he was warned and it was

772
00:44:59,960 --> 00:44:57,599
because of his inexperience in the in

773
00:45:01,550 --> 00:44:59,970
the UFO community he didn't know any he

774
00:45:05,660 --> 00:45:01,560
was just out there trying to figure this

775
00:45:08,390 --> 00:45:05,670
out on his own yes he was and whenever

776
00:45:14,120 --> 00:45:08,400
he would report it an investigator would

777
00:45:18,109 --> 00:45:14,130
come out but over time he had run out of

778
00:45:20,650 --> 00:45:18,119
investigators the the UFO investigators

779
00:45:23,000 --> 00:45:20,660
were saying well this is paranormal the

780
00:45:27,310 --> 00:45:23,010
paranormal investigators were saying

781
00:45:30,740 --> 00:45:27,320
well this is UFO and he was left

782
00:45:34,310 --> 00:45:30,750
essentially alone with his family and

783
00:45:39,650 --> 00:45:34,320
and with his friends but a lot of his

784
00:45:43,010 --> 00:45:39,660
family was becoming isolated from him as

785
00:45:46,070 --> 00:45:43,020
well they they just didn't want to be

786
00:45:48,680 --> 00:45:46,080
near what was occurring in his life what

787
00:45:50,810 --> 00:45:48,690
was his demeanor like when you met him

788
00:45:54,920 --> 00:45:50,820
did he seem stable or was he pretty

789
00:46:01,250 --> 00:45:54,930
freaked out oh he I would say that he

790
00:46:05,450 --> 00:46:01,260
was not mentally ill I could say that I

791
00:46:08,210 --> 00:46:05,460
saw no sign of mental illness but at the

792
00:46:13,160 --> 00:46:08,220
same time he was freaked out he had a

793
00:46:18,770 --> 00:46:13,170
high level of anxiety and how did how

794
00:46:23,660 --> 00:46:18,780
did it end well it ended it in a very

795
00:46:26,870 --> 00:46:23,670
unfortunate way because it came to the

796
00:46:30,829 --> 00:46:26,880
point where he simply abandoned his

797
00:46:34,609 --> 00:46:30,839
business one night there was a UFO that

798
00:46:38,870 --> 00:46:34,619
landed outside the hangar there were men

799
00:46:43,070 --> 00:46:38,880
working there with him they went out

800
00:46:47,480 --> 00:46:43,080
he touched this craft and it ejected

801
00:46:52,330 --> 00:46:47,490
some type of substance that sprayed all

802
00:46:54,859 --> 00:46:52,340
of the men he immediately went in to

803
00:47:01,040 --> 00:46:54,869
decontamination took his clothes off

804
00:47:04,820 --> 00:47:01,050
took a shower the men ran away and never

805
00:47:08,060 --> 00:47:04,830
returned he had no one to work with him

806
00:47:12,800 --> 00:47:08,070
now his wife had left him his workers

807
00:47:16,640 --> 00:47:12,810
had left him and eventually it became so

808
00:47:19,730 --> 00:47:16,650
bad that he simply abandoned the

809
00:47:25,040 --> 00:47:19,740
business that he had invested so much

810
00:47:28,609 --> 00:47:25,050
money in he walked away hoping that that

811
00:47:32,690 --> 00:47:28,619
would save his life because when he was

812
00:47:35,780 --> 00:47:32,700
attempting to drive away repeatedly he

813
00:47:39,440 --> 00:47:35,790
would become extremely ill and would

814
00:47:42,230 --> 00:47:39,450
have to return every time and he thought

815
00:47:46,280 --> 00:47:42,240
that it was demonic activity that was

816
00:47:50,480 --> 00:47:46,290
causing this illness in fact I did

817
00:47:52,880 --> 00:47:50,490
call in a very well-known paranormal

818
00:47:56,150 --> 00:47:52,890
investigator and we were going to go

819
00:47:59,500 --> 00:47:56,160
there with cameras we were it was

820
00:48:03,500 --> 00:47:59,510
adjacent to a Native American

821
00:48:06,220 --> 00:48:03,510
reservation and we were had permission

822
00:48:11,450 --> 00:48:06,230
to go there we were planning the trip

823
00:48:16,880 --> 00:48:11,460
when Matt passed away unfortunately it's

824
00:48:21,370 --> 00:48:16,890
an incredible case just incredible from

825
00:48:24,680 --> 00:48:21,380
top to bottom and I've wracked my brain

826
00:48:29,060 --> 00:48:24,690
anyway - I'm just wondering if I've ever

827
00:48:32,450 --> 00:48:29,070
met him and and he's no longer with us

828
00:48:34,970 --> 00:48:32,460
he's somebody that I would would have

829
00:48:38,839 --> 00:48:34,980
loved to have reached out to he needed

830
00:48:40,640 --> 00:48:38,849
to speak you know and he needed to - to

831
00:48:43,270 --> 00:48:40,650
get this this story out there and I

832
00:48:46,040 --> 00:48:43,280
think it stands as a pretty good warning

833
00:48:48,800 --> 00:48:46,050
you need to really know what you're

834
00:48:50,660 --> 00:48:48,810
doing with stuff like this and and he

835
00:48:55,009 --> 00:48:50,670
unfortunately didn't

836
00:48:56,930 --> 00:48:55,019
and what went from UFOs I think turned

837
00:49:01,009 --> 00:48:56,940
into something else that was completely

838
00:49:04,670 --> 00:49:01,019
out of his control yes now there's

839
00:49:11,089 --> 00:49:04,680
another case here that again I didn't

840
00:49:14,900 --> 00:49:11,099
know anything about which is the the

841
00:49:16,730 --> 00:49:14,910
young couple that that got separated

842
00:49:19,370 --> 00:49:16,740
again I think you're running with

843
00:49:22,250 --> 00:49:19,380
pseudonyms here right yes I am

844
00:49:30,470 --> 00:49:22,260
so it's a Janet and and and what's the

845
00:49:35,000 --> 00:49:30,480
boyfriends name where they they were out

846
00:49:40,579 --> 00:49:35,010
there were teenagers and and got

847
00:49:43,099 --> 00:49:40,589
abducted and she went she moved to a

848
00:49:44,059 --> 00:49:43,109
southern state and was separated and

849
00:49:47,120 --> 00:49:44,069
then oh yeah

850
00:49:48,650 --> 00:49:47,130
right yes yes yes and now I know what

851
00:49:53,450 --> 00:49:48,660
you're talking about

852
00:49:57,700 --> 00:49:53,460
they worked at a summer camp on Long

853
00:50:03,499 --> 00:49:57,710
Island not Long Island on Lake Champlain

854
00:50:08,990 --> 00:50:03,509
in Vermont I believe it was and she was

855
00:50:11,059 --> 00:50:09,000
older than he and she was the the

856
00:50:13,880 --> 00:50:11,069
swimming instructor and the lifeguard

857
00:50:17,960 --> 00:50:13,890
and he took care of the equipment along

858
00:50:21,049 --> 00:50:17,970
the the edge of the lake and one night

859
00:50:24,980 --> 00:50:21,059
this was a swim camp and and all of the

860
00:50:27,380 --> 00:50:24,990
kids went to a swim meet and it left the

861
00:50:33,789 --> 00:50:27,390
two of them and just a few people around

862
00:50:37,749 --> 00:50:33,799
the camp and they were out on the pier

863
00:50:42,319 --> 00:50:37,759
just looking out his night fell and

864
00:50:45,319 --> 00:50:42,329
suddenly they saw what we could only

865
00:50:49,160 --> 00:50:45,329
think of as a mother ship that came in

866
00:50:51,650 --> 00:50:49,170
and released smaller craft they

867
00:50:56,630 --> 00:50:51,660
described it as like an orange ball or a

868
00:51:00,519 --> 00:50:56,640
red ball yes yes yes and and the the

869
00:51:04,520 --> 00:51:00,529
craft one moved in in one direction and

870
00:51:09,640 --> 00:51:04,530
one moved close

871
00:51:13,850 --> 00:51:09,650
to them it ascended into the air it

872
00:51:17,630 --> 00:51:13,860
descended plunged into the water as they

873
00:51:22,670 --> 00:51:17,640
watched it and then it moved through the

874
00:51:27,530 --> 00:51:22,680
water and rose up very very close to

875
00:51:31,550 --> 00:51:27,540
them and he could actually see inside

876
00:51:34,540 --> 00:51:31,560
this craft and described what what

877
00:51:36,680 --> 00:51:34,550
looked like frogs wearing goggles

878
00:51:42,020 --> 00:51:36,690
looking back at him and there was

879
00:51:46,820 --> 00:51:42,030
telepathic communication that they were

880
00:51:51,880 --> 00:51:46,830
there to do no harm and the young woman

881
00:51:55,700 --> 00:51:51,890
at the time just sort of lost

882
00:52:01,870 --> 00:51:55,710
consciousness he then lost consciousness

883
00:52:04,970 --> 00:52:01,880
as well and the next thing they knew

884
00:52:08,060 --> 00:52:04,980
they heard the voices of the kids

885
00:52:12,440 --> 00:52:08,070
returning from the swim meet they were

886
00:52:16,060 --> 00:52:12,450
still down where they had been several

887
00:52:19,820 --> 00:52:16,070
hours had passed and they were

888
00:52:23,150 --> 00:52:19,830
disoriented they remembered parts of

889
00:52:28,820 --> 00:52:23,160
what happened there were witnesses who

890
00:52:32,360 --> 00:52:28,830
did see the craft leaving and they held

891
00:52:36,290 --> 00:52:32,370
on to this story for many many years

892
00:52:40,910 --> 00:52:36,300
until the young man reported it to

893
00:52:46,970 --> 00:52:40,920
Walter Webb Walter Webb was a highly

894
00:52:49,550 --> 00:52:46,980
esteemed UFO investigator he was the

895
00:52:52,640 --> 00:52:49,560
investigator on Betty's and Barney's

896
00:52:54,430 --> 00:52:52,650
case he worked with Allen Hynek he was

897
00:52:59,840 --> 00:52:54,440
an astronomer at the Hayden Planetarium

898
00:53:07,130 --> 00:52:59,850
in Boston and he investigated this case

899
00:53:10,820 --> 00:53:07,140
he tracked down Janet and brought her up

900
00:53:13,910 --> 00:53:10,830
she came up and she met with the young

901
00:53:17,720 --> 00:53:13,920
man they underwent separate hypnosis

902
00:53:18,289 --> 00:53:17,730
sessions and they remembered finding

903
00:53:22,489 --> 00:53:18,299
themselves

904
00:53:25,219 --> 00:53:22,499
on tables in a craft you know the same

905
00:53:27,890 --> 00:53:25,229
story we hear over and over and over

906
00:53:31,459 --> 00:53:27,900
again you know the same scenario was

907
00:53:37,309 --> 00:53:31,469
pretty much the same with a certain

908
00:53:40,279 --> 00:53:37,319
group of entities and Janet had gone on

909
00:53:41,299 --> 00:53:40,289
to college she lived in the southern

910
00:53:46,039 --> 00:53:41,309
state

911
00:53:50,150 --> 00:53:46,049
she was worked at a college and the

912
00:53:54,160 --> 00:53:50,160
young man had sort of done many

913
00:53:59,120 --> 00:53:54,170
different things in his life and

914
00:54:02,599 --> 00:53:59,130
including having repeat experiences very

915
00:54:07,069 --> 00:54:02,609
very interesting case fascinating case

916
00:54:09,679 --> 00:54:07,079
and the I liked the the aspect about

917
00:54:12,019 --> 00:54:09,689
this where there's a 10-year separation

918
00:54:16,519 --> 00:54:12,029
she moves to a southern state they

919
00:54:20,359 --> 00:54:16,529
haven't communicated and Webb was able

920
00:54:23,239 --> 00:54:20,369
to locate her and bring her back do the

921
00:54:27,380 --> 00:54:23,249
separate sessions and then have

922
00:54:30,559 --> 00:54:27,390
everything line up yeah it's an

923
00:54:33,709 --> 00:54:30,569
incredible case and though the one part

924
00:54:37,969 --> 00:54:33,719
about it for me that stands out is his

925
00:54:43,130 --> 00:54:37,979
last memory was she fell unconscious

926
00:54:45,499 --> 00:54:43,140
he was falling unconscious and he just

927
00:54:47,959 --> 00:54:45,509
wanted to protect her and that was the

928
00:54:51,199 --> 00:54:47,969
last memory was him phasing out she's

929
00:54:53,839 --> 00:54:51,209
gone she's out and and he covers her up

930
00:54:56,390 --> 00:54:53,849
and the last memory that he had was the

931
00:54:59,150 --> 00:54:56,400
ship rising out of the water and then

932
00:55:01,189 --> 00:54:59,160
that's it and then they went and did

933
00:55:03,949 --> 00:55:01,199
their sessions ten years later let's

934
00:55:04,459 --> 00:55:03,959
take our next break right here our guest

935
00:55:07,689 --> 00:55:04,469
tonight

936
00:55:10,939 --> 00:55:07,699
Cathleen Martin discussing her new book

937
00:55:13,609 --> 00:55:10,949
extraterrestrial contact what to do when

938
00:55:15,319 --> 00:55:13,619
you've been abducted it is a handbook

939
00:55:15,979 --> 00:55:15,329
and you can get it at Kathleen Martin

940
00:55:17,779 --> 00:55:15,989
calm

941
00:55:23,990 --> 00:55:17,789
this is fade to black I'm Yours Timmy

942
00:55:24,000 --> 00:56:15,120
[Music]

943
00:56:18,070 --> 00:56:17,140
welcome back fade to black our meal

944
00:56:20,080 --> 00:56:18,080
should be Church our guest tonight

945
00:56:22,560 --> 00:56:20,090
Kathleen Martin night three of our

946
00:56:25,570 --> 00:56:22,570
amazing women we here on fade to black

947
00:56:28,690 --> 00:56:25,580
talking about her new book it is it's a

948
00:56:30,250 --> 00:56:28,700
handbook it's a practical guide if you

949
00:56:32,260 --> 00:56:30,260
think you've been abducted

950
00:56:33,520 --> 00:56:32,270
it's called extraterrestrial contact

951
00:56:36,700 --> 00:56:33,530
what to do when you've been abducted

952
00:56:39,340 --> 00:56:36,710
it's a great read I highly recommend it

953
00:56:44,410 --> 00:56:39,350
and Kathleen now what out what I want to

954
00:56:47,530 --> 00:56:44,420
talk about here is what you should do if

955
00:56:50,220 --> 00:56:47,540
you think something strange has happened

956
00:56:55,090 --> 00:56:50,230
that's what the book deals with

957
00:56:59,080 --> 00:56:55,100
specifically and I want to talk the

958
00:57:01,900 --> 00:56:59,090
reason why I want to go here is you had

959
00:57:03,910 --> 00:57:01,910
an experience oh by the way you live in

960
00:57:06,940 --> 00:57:03,920
Florida you've got a hurricane coming

961
00:57:08,920 --> 00:57:06,950
your way I hope that you're safe you're

962
00:57:12,609 --> 00:57:08,930
prepared and and you're good to go

963
00:57:17,740 --> 00:57:12,619
I want to point that out and you you

964
00:57:22,260 --> 00:57:17,750
document an experience that you may have

965
00:57:26,370 --> 00:57:22,270
had while driving in South Florida and

966
00:57:29,770 --> 00:57:26,380
this is a perfect situation for anybody

967
00:57:35,260 --> 00:57:29,780
- it's like the telltale signs right

968
00:57:38,109 --> 00:57:35,270
that's exactly what it is and so let's

969
00:57:40,150 --> 00:57:38,119
talk about what you should do and what

970
00:57:42,580 --> 00:57:40,160
those warning signs may be and we'll

971
00:57:47,050 --> 00:57:42,590
start with your drive in in South

972
00:57:51,700 --> 00:57:47,060
Florida what happened well Denise donor

973
00:57:56,830 --> 00:57:51,710
my father and I had driven down to Tampa

974
00:58:00,730 --> 00:57:56,840
st. Pete area for a MUFON meeting it was

975
00:58:05,109 --> 00:58:00,740
on a Saturday and Paula Harris was there

976
00:58:07,990 --> 00:58:05,119
to speak to the group and Terri Ling you

977
00:58:11,020 --> 00:58:08,000
might be aware of her sure the Mullens

978
00:58:14,349 --> 00:58:11,030
board of directors and she was hosting

979
00:58:18,010 --> 00:58:14,359
the meeting so we we went to the meeting

980
00:58:21,640 --> 00:58:18,020
and we went to a little takeout kind of

981
00:58:26,740 --> 00:58:21,650
restaurant after that I wanted to get

982
00:58:30,510 --> 00:58:26,750
home so we left before anyone else we

983
00:58:33,880 --> 00:58:30,520
finished our food and and then left and

984
00:58:37,930 --> 00:58:33,890
the first thing that happened was I had

985
00:58:41,260 --> 00:58:37,940
my GPS set to drop

986
00:58:47,560 --> 00:58:41,270
Denise off at a location that's halfway

987
00:58:51,190 --> 00:58:47,570
between my house and her house and so my

988
00:58:53,560 --> 00:58:51,200
GPS started malfunctioning and and it

989
00:58:56,110 --> 00:58:53,570
was telling me to drive off the road and

990
00:59:01,000 --> 00:58:56,120
one when this first happened I actually

991
00:59:03,850 --> 00:59:01,010
did and realize that yeah I shouldn't be

992
00:59:06,750 --> 00:59:03,860
here so I turned around and got back on

993
00:59:09,550 --> 00:59:06,760
the highway and I was driving along and

994
00:59:14,980 --> 00:59:09,560
she and my father and I were having a

995
00:59:17,710 --> 00:59:14,990
great exciting conversation when all of

996
00:59:20,730 --> 00:59:17,720
a sudden she and I found kind of an

997
00:59:24,460 --> 00:59:20,740
experience as if we were going up a hill

998
00:59:28,630 --> 00:59:24,470
but there aren't any Hills in that part

999
00:59:30,670 --> 00:59:28,640
of Florida and then we kind of had the

1000
00:59:33,310 --> 00:59:30,680
experience that we're coming down again

1001
00:59:35,980 --> 00:59:33,320
enough I didn't realize she was having

1002
00:59:38,470 --> 00:59:35,990
that experience at the time and she

1003
00:59:41,860 --> 00:59:38,480
didn't realize that I was I just thought

1004
00:59:45,130 --> 00:59:41,870
to myself I must be really tired right

1005
00:59:50,350 --> 00:59:45,140
and this is a perceptual kind of thing

1006
00:59:54,390 --> 00:59:50,360
and all of a sudden my father was sound

1007
00:59:57,250 --> 00:59:54,400
asleep we went from an enjoyable

1008
01:00:01,240 --> 00:59:57,260
conversation to him being sound asleep

1009
01:00:04,810 --> 01:00:01,250
in the backseat and we just drove on to

1010
01:00:09,640 --> 01:00:04,820
that point where Denise had parked her

1011
01:00:12,640 --> 01:00:09,650
car and she got out and when she did she

1012
01:00:17,680 --> 01:00:12,650
discovered that her cell phone that had

1013
01:00:21,490 --> 01:00:17,690
been fully charged was now dead and she

1014
01:00:23,410 --> 01:00:21,500
got into her vehicle I had my flip phone

1015
01:00:26,320 --> 01:00:23,420
that had been turned off the whole time

1016
01:00:28,240 --> 01:00:26,330
and that was working so she called her

1017
01:00:32,890 --> 01:00:28,250
husband and said that she would be right

1018
01:00:36,240 --> 01:00:32,900
home and well she got into her car and

1019
01:00:40,660 --> 01:00:36,250
the dashboard started malfunctioning

1020
01:00:44,230 --> 01:00:40,670
also the she was wearing an inch

1021
01:00:46,539 --> 01:00:44,240
and pump at the time and that started

1022
01:00:49,690 --> 01:00:46,549
buzzing even though it had a full

1023
01:00:55,599 --> 01:00:49,700
battery oh when she wore it that

1024
01:00:58,569 --> 01:00:55,609
afternoon so she headed home and all of

1025
01:01:01,960 --> 01:00:58,579
a sudden she found herself in a new

1026
01:01:05,049 --> 01:01:01,970
location on the other side of a lake

1027
01:01:08,940 --> 01:01:05,059
that she was passing in a kind of a

1028
01:01:13,240 --> 01:01:08,950
quiet almost desolate neighborhood and

1029
01:01:16,740 --> 01:01:13,250
there she remembered that something had

1030
01:01:21,120 --> 01:01:16,750
happened she had a vague memory of a

1031
01:01:24,430 --> 01:01:21,130
fiery orb rising up out of a lake and

1032
01:01:30,900 --> 01:01:24,440
observing a nonhuman entity who was

1033
01:01:34,420 --> 01:01:30,910
familiar she called me the next day and

1034
01:01:36,760 --> 01:01:34,430
she was very concerned about this and

1035
01:01:43,410 --> 01:01:36,770
she was going out with a friend who was

1036
01:01:49,920 --> 01:01:43,420
another no we just lost Kathleen

1037
01:01:58,450 --> 01:01:54,309
okay can you hear me okay that was

1038
01:02:05,760 --> 01:01:58,460
bizarre can you hear me yes I can can

1039
01:02:09,609 --> 01:02:05,770
you hear me okay I can thank goodness I

1040
01:02:16,270 --> 01:02:09,619
don't know what that was but it's a good

1041
01:02:17,589 --> 01:02:16,280
thing that I'm back okay okay anyway I'm

1042
01:02:21,309 --> 01:02:17,599
going to leave that I'm gonna leave

1043
01:02:27,010 --> 01:02:21,319
that's not gonna get edited out was

1044
01:02:31,059 --> 01:02:27,020
magic okay so we left off Denise the

1045
01:02:35,640 --> 01:02:31,069
next day she called you very concerned

1046
01:02:38,589 --> 01:02:35,650
let's let's pick up right there okay she

1047
01:02:41,589 --> 01:02:38,599
was going to go out with another MUFON

1048
01:02:44,740 --> 01:02:41,599
field investigator to investigate that

1049
01:02:49,089 --> 01:02:44,750
area to see if she could remember more

1050
01:02:52,150 --> 01:02:49,099
so they went out there and they did

1051
01:02:54,430 --> 01:02:52,160
their investigation also the

1052
01:02:58,599 --> 01:02:54,440
investigation of Denise's

1053
01:03:02,500 --> 01:02:58,609
car with a Trifield meter and there was

1054
01:03:07,089 --> 01:03:02,510
a strong electromagnetic field anomaly

1055
01:03:11,109 --> 01:03:07,099
in that area of the vehicle so I made

1056
01:03:16,180 --> 01:03:11,119
arrangements for Denis to come to my

1057
01:03:21,120 --> 01:03:16,190
house and I would hypnotize her but

1058
01:03:26,859 --> 01:03:21,130
before that could happen the following

1059
01:03:33,460 --> 01:03:26,869
night I had something happen at my own

1060
01:03:38,950 --> 01:03:33,470
house that was very perplexing I woke up

1061
01:03:45,339 --> 01:03:38,960
with a start with messages being

1062
01:03:50,260 --> 01:03:45,349
downloaded into my head and it was

1063
01:03:52,599 --> 01:03:50,270
coming very very rapidly and I went to

1064
01:03:55,540 --> 01:03:52,609
get out of bed because I wanted to write

1065
01:03:58,900 --> 01:03:55,550
this down and I discovered that I had

1066
01:04:01,270 --> 01:03:58,910
been injured I had a head injury the

1067
01:04:05,380 --> 01:04:01,280
side of my head was extremely painful

1068
01:04:10,240 --> 01:04:05,390
and I couldn't turn over in bed I had a

1069
01:04:16,990 --> 01:04:10,250
back injury my hip was sore and so I

1070
01:04:20,530 --> 01:04:17,000
decided simply to remain in bed and the

1071
01:04:24,280 --> 01:04:20,540
next morning I was still in a great deal

1072
01:04:28,180 --> 01:04:24,290
of pain I ended up eventually having

1073
01:04:32,349 --> 01:04:28,190
physical therapy because of it so that

1074
01:04:33,040 --> 01:04:32,359
caught me to question what had happened

1075
01:04:37,900 --> 01:04:33,050
that night

1076
01:04:41,530 --> 01:04:37,910
and I said to my father I think I had et

1077
01:04:45,250 --> 01:04:41,540
contact last night and my father who was

1078
01:04:51,880 --> 01:04:45,260
living in a small house next to mine my

1079
01:04:56,069 --> 01:04:51,890
guesthouse said I think we did too I saw

1080
01:05:02,559 --> 01:04:56,079
an unusual light outside my window and

1081
01:05:06,430 --> 01:05:02,569
so finally Denis came over and I saw the

1082
01:05:08,050 --> 01:05:06,440
anomaly on her dashboard we had the

1083
01:05:12,610 --> 01:05:08,060
Trifield meter

1084
01:05:15,550 --> 01:05:12,620
we set it down on the kitchen table my

1085
01:05:23,590 --> 01:05:15,560
dining room table and we tested the

1086
01:05:26,140 --> 01:05:23,600
ambient environment and then we walked

1087
01:05:28,870 --> 01:05:26,150
away with it be from it because it kept

1088
01:05:31,690 --> 01:05:28,880
a buzz buzzing but it eventually would

1089
01:05:34,990 --> 01:05:31,700
would drop down to where it should be

1090
01:05:37,690 --> 01:05:35,000
for the ambient environment and we were

1091
01:05:42,220 --> 01:05:37,700
then about a dozen feet away from it and

1092
01:05:48,430 --> 01:05:42,230
when one of us would step toward it it

1093
01:05:51,910 --> 01:05:48,440
would spike again and buzz indicating a

1094
01:05:54,400 --> 01:05:51,920
very very strong electromagnetic field

1095
01:05:58,030 --> 01:05:54,410
but stronger on the electrical range

1096
01:06:02,440 --> 01:05:58,040
then on the Magnetic range interesting

1097
01:06:05,380 --> 01:06:02,450
uh this happened a few times and so I

1098
01:06:09,220 --> 01:06:05,390
was perplexed and I called my husband in

1099
01:06:12,190 --> 01:06:09,230
and I said Charlie we're doing an

1100
01:06:15,310 --> 01:06:12,200
experiment I want you to walk toward

1101
01:06:16,960 --> 01:06:15,320
that Trifield meter and tell me and so

1102
01:06:20,140 --> 01:06:16,970
that we can see what happens I think

1103
01:06:26,770 --> 01:06:20,150
it's malfunctioning and he walked toward

1104
01:06:30,520 --> 01:06:26,780
it and nothing happened in the end

1105
01:06:33,460 --> 01:06:30,530
Denise went home but we did hypnosis but

1106
01:06:36,220 --> 01:06:33,470
Denise did go home and she tested it out

1107
01:06:39,370 --> 01:06:36,230
on her daughter on her husband and on

1108
01:06:40,660 --> 01:06:39,380
her neighbor and none of them had the

1109
01:06:43,510 --> 01:06:40,670
same reaction

1110
01:06:48,600 --> 01:06:43,520
with this Trifield meter that Denise and

1111
01:06:52,080 --> 01:06:48,610
I had on our bodies i hypnotized her and

1112
01:06:56,770 --> 01:06:52,090
she remembered a lot of what she

1113
01:06:58,990 --> 01:06:56,780
recalled consciously and she also

1114
01:07:02,700 --> 01:06:59,000
remembered when she was on the craft

1115
01:07:05,680 --> 01:07:02,710
passing by a room she was being escorted

1116
01:07:09,480 --> 01:07:05,690
rapidly by so she couldn't stop and look

1117
01:07:12,880 --> 01:07:09,490
into this room but she saw a woman who

1118
01:07:16,990 --> 01:07:12,890
was not facing her but this woman was

1119
01:07:20,230 --> 01:07:17,000
wearing what seemed like a necklace or a

1120
01:07:22,000 --> 01:07:20,240
scarf around her neck that's happened to

1121
01:07:25,540 --> 01:07:22,010
be what I was wearing

1122
01:07:30,460 --> 01:07:25,550
that night when we had this strange

1123
01:07:35,800 --> 01:07:30,470
experience while driving and she did

1124
01:07:38,470 --> 01:07:35,810
recall an elderly balding man next to

1125
01:07:41,380 --> 01:07:38,480
this woman which would perfectly

1126
01:07:44,950 --> 01:07:41,390
describe my father I don't know for

1127
01:07:47,620 --> 01:07:44,960
certain if it was us or not but we were

1128
01:07:52,330 --> 01:07:47,630
just sitting there on a bench as she

1129
01:07:56,290 --> 01:07:52,340
passed by they took her in briefly she

1130
01:08:01,930 --> 01:07:56,300
thought to insert another implant into

1131
01:08:05,050 --> 01:08:01,940
her and then they released her and my

1132
01:08:08,260 --> 01:08:05,060
father and I strangely arrived home

1133
01:08:14,140 --> 01:08:08,270
later than we had anticipated that night

1134
01:08:15,160 --> 01:08:14,150
- and then she hypnotized me and under

1135
01:08:18,249 --> 01:08:15,170
hypnosis

1136
01:08:22,450 --> 01:08:18,259
I remembered waking up when I was

1137
01:08:27,280 --> 01:08:22,460
dropped on a table yeah in this craft

1138
01:08:31,360 --> 01:08:27,290
and I was on my side when I was dropped

1139
01:08:36,519 --> 01:08:31,370
and I came face to face with a small

1140
01:08:39,579 --> 01:08:36,529
gray entity it did not look like a

1141
01:08:43,390 --> 01:08:39,589
sentient being I thought that it might

1142
01:08:50,490 --> 01:08:43,400
have been bio robotic it had a very

1143
01:08:55,870 --> 01:08:50,500
round large head and a very flat face

1144
01:08:59,680 --> 01:08:55,880
there were eyes that were outlined in

1145
01:09:03,430 --> 01:08:59,690
silver that appeared to be metallic I

1146
01:09:07,030 --> 01:09:03,440
did not notice a nose I don't think and

1147
01:09:12,729 --> 01:09:07,040
just a little upturned mouth as if it

1148
01:09:15,880 --> 01:09:12,739
had been penciled there I was I was

1149
01:09:22,180 --> 01:09:15,890
injured and the entities who were down

1150
01:09:25,809 --> 01:09:22,190
at the end of the table told said that

1151
01:09:29,320 --> 01:09:25,819
was an accident and I remembered him

1152
01:09:33,030 --> 01:09:29,330
saying well she's a troublemaker isn't

1153
01:09:34,910 --> 01:09:33,040
she see I was writing a book on Denise's

1154
01:09:39,499 --> 01:09:34,920
experiences well he got

1155
01:09:40,970 --> 01:09:39,509
that part right the alien abductions you

1156
01:09:44,240 --> 01:09:40,980
got that part right

1157
01:09:47,209 --> 01:09:44,250
yes I guess they did get that part right

1158
01:09:52,700 --> 01:09:47,219
I guess I am a troublemaker for some of

1159
01:09:56,030 --> 01:09:52,710
them and for those that are listening to

1160
01:09:59,720 --> 01:09:56,040
you recounting this incredible drive in

1161
01:10:02,209 --> 01:09:59,730
Florida and they're going down the check

1162
01:10:04,760 --> 01:10:02,219
marks right well I've had that happen

1163
01:10:08,990 --> 01:10:04,770
I've that yeah okay okay

1164
01:10:13,160 --> 01:10:09,000
at what point should somebody reach out

1165
01:10:17,540 --> 01:10:13,170
and and and try to figure out what may

1166
01:10:22,880 --> 01:10:17,550
have happened to them because it may not

1167
01:10:24,290 --> 01:10:22,890
be a fully remembered you know memory at

1168
01:10:25,760 --> 01:10:24,300
what points should somebody go okay you

1169
01:10:28,450 --> 01:10:25,770
know what this this seems a little

1170
01:10:31,580 --> 01:10:28,460
strange here we need to look into this

1171
01:10:36,490 --> 01:10:31,590
well I always recommend that people

1172
01:10:38,959 --> 01:10:36,500
write what happened in a journal

1173
01:10:40,850 --> 01:10:38,969
immediately because you tend to lose

1174
01:10:43,700 --> 01:10:40,860
memory over time

1175
01:10:48,500 --> 01:10:43,710
I always write everything that I can

1176
01:10:51,350 --> 01:10:48,510
remember immediately and that's what I

1177
01:10:56,209 --> 01:10:51,360
recommend to people I had done that the

1178
01:11:00,200 --> 01:10:56,219
following morning but if they've had

1179
01:11:02,959 --> 01:11:00,210
this experience they might remember more

1180
01:11:08,140 --> 01:11:02,969
about it they could give themselves a

1181
01:11:13,030 --> 01:11:08,150
little time if it is bothering them

1182
01:11:16,040 --> 01:11:13,040
tremendously if they are feeling anxiety

1183
01:11:19,250 --> 01:11:16,050
over it or if they are feeling they've

1184
01:11:22,250 --> 01:11:19,260
been traumatized by it I would recommend

1185
01:11:27,080 --> 01:11:22,260
that they make an appointment to see a

1186
01:11:31,160 --> 01:11:27,090
professional who can help them and they

1187
01:11:35,360 --> 01:11:31,170
can go to the mutual UFO network scroll

1188
01:11:41,290 --> 01:11:35,370
down to experience a research team on

1189
01:11:44,930 --> 01:11:41,300
the main page at MUFON they can click on

1190
01:11:47,470 --> 01:11:44,940
the little icon that will let them have

1191
01:11:48,830 --> 01:11:47,480
a conversation to tell their story

1192
01:11:51,560 --> 01:11:48,840
privately

1193
01:11:56,780 --> 01:11:51,570
a member of my team and my team of very

1194
01:11:58,939 --> 01:11:56,790
compassionate caring listeners and they

1195
01:12:03,020 --> 01:11:58,949
click on that it will take them to my

1196
01:12:05,209 --> 01:12:03,030
team's page and they click at the top of

1197
01:12:07,729 --> 01:12:05,219
the page it says experience or

1198
01:12:10,700 --> 01:12:07,739
questionnaire it's a 30 question

1199
01:12:12,890 --> 01:12:10,710
questionnaire click on that you don't

1200
01:12:16,629 --> 01:12:12,900
have to give a lot of information about

1201
01:12:20,899 --> 01:12:16,639
yourself you don't have to worry your

1202
01:12:23,750 --> 01:12:20,909
conversation is private and complete

1203
01:12:26,540 --> 01:12:23,760
that questionnaire if it doesn't matter

1204
01:12:29,810 --> 01:12:26,550
what you score you could score 5 points

1205
01:12:33,229 --> 01:12:29,820
and this could be your first abduction

1206
01:12:37,280 --> 01:12:33,239
or contact experience you could score 15

1207
01:12:41,540 --> 01:12:37,290
to 20 and you could have been contacted

1208
01:12:44,149 --> 01:12:41,550
over and over again so don't think you

1209
01:12:45,500 --> 01:12:44,159
have to score 30 points you don't in

1210
01:12:49,399 --> 01:12:45,510
fact you shouldn't

1211
01:12:52,580 --> 01:12:49,409
so that will open up a conversation with

1212
01:12:58,010 --> 01:12:52,590
a member of the team and they will talk

1213
01:13:00,410 --> 01:12:58,020
to you and give you support help you to

1214
01:13:04,700 --> 01:13:00,420
come to some kind of understanding and

1215
01:13:08,290 --> 01:13:04,710
if you feel that you want to see a

1216
01:13:11,540 --> 01:13:08,300
trained professional either a licensed

1217
01:13:14,419 --> 01:13:11,550
psychotherapist who does hypnosis or

1218
01:13:15,260 --> 01:13:14,429
even if you have post-traumatic stress

1219
01:13:19,370 --> 01:13:15,270
disorder

1220
01:13:23,419 --> 01:13:19,380
EMDR desensitization therapy where you

1221
01:13:26,149 --> 01:13:23,429
will actually remember you a great deal

1222
01:13:30,470 --> 01:13:26,159
about your experience having that type

1223
01:13:33,350 --> 01:13:30,480
of therapy you can make the decision who

1224
01:13:36,109 --> 01:13:33,360
you want to go to you will enter into a

1225
01:13:38,540 --> 01:13:36,119
private relationship with this

1226
01:13:41,780 --> 01:13:38,550
individual for pay

1227
01:13:44,240 --> 01:13:41,790
MUFON doesn't have funding and nobody

1228
01:13:47,990 --> 01:13:44,250
does this for free for the mutual UFO

1229
01:13:50,419 --> 01:13:48,000
network so you enter into a private

1230
01:13:53,419 --> 01:13:50,429
relationship you don't have to say

1231
01:13:55,790 --> 01:13:53,429
another word to that person who you

1232
01:13:58,100 --> 01:13:55,800
talked to at MUFON unless you want to

1233
01:14:02,270 --> 01:13:58,110
but I hope that you will say thank you

1234
01:14:05,990 --> 01:14:02,280
for helping me and if you

1235
01:14:09,880 --> 01:14:06,000
not traumatized if you are only curious

1236
01:14:14,600 --> 01:14:09,890
about what happened we have a list of

1237
01:14:18,560 --> 01:14:14,610
hypnotherapist and also quantum healing

1238
01:14:22,550 --> 01:14:18,570
hypnosis technique therapists as well in

1239
01:14:25,070 --> 01:14:22,560
the book which I thought was fantastic

1240
01:14:28,790 --> 01:14:25,080
it was a great approach you do a

1241
01:14:31,250 --> 01:14:28,800
questionnaire after each chapter and I

1242
01:14:34,400 --> 01:14:31,260
thought this was a really great and

1243
01:14:36,680 --> 01:14:34,410
original approach to do this I'm holding

1244
01:14:41,110 --> 01:14:36,690
some of them up to the camera there's a

1245
01:14:46,280 --> 01:14:41,120
questionnaire right there great way to

1246
01:14:51,590 --> 01:14:46,290
to tackle this what what made you go

1247
01:14:54,620 --> 01:14:51,600
this way I wanted to help people and it

1248
01:14:57,590 --> 01:14:54,630
seemed to me that the best way to help

1249
01:15:01,250 --> 01:14:57,600
people was to have them read a chapter

1250
01:15:05,270 --> 01:15:01,260
on a certain topic and then go to the

1251
01:15:09,220 --> 01:15:05,280
questionnaire afterwards and to answer

1252
01:15:12,950 --> 01:15:09,230
the questions it would help them to

1253
01:15:15,890 --> 01:15:12,960
maybe come up with more information than

1254
01:15:18,830 --> 01:15:15,900
they had previously remembered it would

1255
01:15:22,730 --> 01:15:18,840
help them to assess how they feel about

1256
01:15:26,840 --> 01:15:22,740
what is occurring and on and on and on

1257
01:15:31,310 --> 01:15:26,850
each chapter has its own questionnaire

1258
01:15:33,560 --> 01:15:31,320
and some of them are scored so that you

1259
01:15:36,470 --> 01:15:33,570
can score your number of points and you

1260
01:15:39,470 --> 01:15:36,480
can find out what category you're in and

1261
01:15:42,380 --> 01:15:39,480
what you should do be careful what you

1262
01:15:46,760 --> 01:15:42,390
do here everybody went through my

1263
01:15:47,840 --> 01:15:46,770
questionnaire and chapter three is

1264
01:15:50,060 --> 01:15:47,850
really good we're going to talk about

1265
01:15:54,430 --> 01:15:50,070
this after the break how to investigate

1266
01:15:58,490 --> 01:15:54,440
your own contact experiences and then

1267
01:16:00,950 --> 01:15:58,500
with you've got a checklist in here

1268
01:16:02,000 --> 01:16:00,960
tools and ideas and how to go through it

1269
01:16:04,250 --> 01:16:02,010
I'm holding all this up to the camera

1270
01:16:06,710 --> 01:16:04,260
it's a great book and it's really well

1271
01:16:08,480 --> 01:16:06,720
written and we'll talk about that after

1272
01:16:12,920 --> 01:16:08,490
the break what I want to ask you about

1273
01:16:14,750 --> 01:16:12,930
here in the Davis Wilson leaked

1274
01:16:15,390 --> 01:16:14,760
documents that came out a couple of

1275
01:16:19,350 --> 01:16:15,400
months ago

1276
01:16:23,250 --> 01:16:19,360
on page 15 the last page of the

1277
01:16:26,610 --> 01:16:23,260
documents this is with dr. eric davis

1278
01:16:30,690 --> 01:16:26,620
and thomas wilson the rear-admiral and

1279
01:16:34,170 --> 01:16:30,700
on page 15 thomas wilson says he talked

1280
01:16:37,440 --> 01:16:34,180
to gansler in january 9 th bout my June

1281
01:16:39,390 --> 01:16:37,450
97 meetings this was at the Pentagon he

1282
01:16:42,200 --> 01:16:39,400
was briefed by someone it surprised me

1283
01:16:47,150 --> 01:16:42,210
Eric Davis says What did he say

1284
01:16:50,100 --> 01:16:47,160
Admiral Wilson responds UFOs are real

1285
01:16:56,250 --> 01:16:50,110
so-called alien abductions

1286
01:16:58,350 --> 01:16:56,260
not real gansler said this now I think a

1287
01:17:00,300 --> 01:16:58,360
lot of the UFO community and looking at

1288
01:17:03,900 --> 01:17:00,310
these leaked documents and reading that

1289
01:17:05,910 --> 01:17:03,910
were taken aback including myself when

1290
01:17:09,000 --> 01:17:05,920
you hear this kind of statement it's

1291
01:17:10,950 --> 01:17:09,010
this misdirection coming from the

1292
01:17:14,130 --> 01:17:10,960
government because they don't want to

1293
01:17:16,860 --> 01:17:14,140
talk about the abduction phenomenon why

1294
01:17:21,330 --> 01:17:16,870
would they say UFOs are real and alien

1295
01:17:24,630 --> 01:17:21,340
abductions are not because they don't

1296
01:17:28,770 --> 01:17:24,640
want to address the issue of alien

1297
01:17:31,980 --> 01:17:28,780
abductions or contact because militarily

1298
01:17:34,050 --> 01:17:31,990
they are helpless they cannot prevent

1299
01:17:37,860 --> 01:17:34,060
this from happening and if you will

1300
01:17:40,800 --> 01:17:37,870
notice those representatives from the

1301
01:17:44,970 --> 01:17:40,810
government who are speaking now are

1302
01:17:49,620 --> 01:17:44,980
talking about robots in artificial

1303
01:17:53,210 --> 01:17:49,630
intelligence Manning of this craft they

1304
01:17:58,700 --> 01:17:53,220
do not want to address the issue of

1305
01:18:01,770 --> 01:17:58,710
contact with sentient beings are they I

1306
01:18:03,510 --> 01:18:01,780
totally agree that they can't do

1307
01:18:05,940 --> 01:18:03,520
anything about it and probably never

1308
01:18:08,520 --> 01:18:05,950
will be able to you know they're far too

1309
01:18:14,250 --> 01:18:08,530
advanced you know we don't have a way to

1310
01:18:18,300 --> 01:18:14,260
to confront this but are they aware of

1311
01:18:19,920 --> 01:18:18,310
it and and know that it is going on you

1312
01:18:27,150 --> 01:18:19,930
know is this something that they are

1313
01:18:28,689 --> 01:18:27,160
fully educated on they are and military

1314
01:18:36,520 --> 01:18:28,699
man told

1315
01:18:41,500 --> 01:18:36,530
me that and he was aware of my own

1316
01:18:45,930 --> 01:18:41,510
contact experiences and I was

1317
01:18:50,439 --> 01:18:45,940
flabbergasted when he told me that but

1318
01:18:52,870 --> 01:18:50,449
before I'd ever spoken about it so yes

1319
01:18:57,160 --> 01:18:52,880
he said we know a lot more than you

1320
01:18:59,590 --> 01:18:57,170
think we know how many I know that this

1321
01:19:02,439 --> 01:18:59,600
question gets you know asked a lot and

1322
01:19:03,939 --> 01:19:02,449
we wonder about this but when we look at

1323
01:19:06,880 --> 01:19:03,949
you know the different polls that have

1324
01:19:09,340 --> 01:19:06,890
been conducted and in the way if we look

1325
01:19:12,610 --> 01:19:09,350
at ratios and there's seven and a half

1326
01:19:14,770 --> 01:19:12,620
billion people on this planet what what

1327
01:19:17,709 --> 01:19:14,780
kind of number are we actually looking

1328
01:19:21,939 --> 01:19:17,719
at here is it is it is it a crazy large

1329
01:19:25,570 --> 01:19:21,949
number well some people think that it's

1330
01:19:29,169 --> 01:19:25,580
between two and four percent of the

1331
01:19:33,939 --> 01:19:29,179
population of the world which is a crazy

1332
01:19:38,470 --> 01:19:33,949
large number I can tell you that my team

1333
01:19:42,070 --> 01:19:38,480
at MUFON receives up to one hundred and

1334
01:19:45,130 --> 01:19:42,080
fifty questionnaires each month from

1335
01:19:47,650 --> 01:19:45,140
people who are seeking assistance so

1336
01:19:52,209 --> 01:19:47,660
that just that move fine a direct

1337
01:19:55,360 --> 01:19:52,219
response is over a thousand per year yes

1338
01:19:58,660 --> 01:19:55,370
closer probably to twelve maybe fifteen

1339
01:20:00,640 --> 01:19:58,670
hundred how many of those that's it

1340
01:20:03,070 --> 01:20:00,650
that's it that's a big number that's it

1341
01:20:06,880 --> 01:20:03,080
that's that's an astounding number how

1342
01:20:10,660 --> 01:20:06,890
many of those follow through after after

1343
01:20:14,140 --> 01:20:10,670
reaching out to move on we don't keep

1344
01:20:18,640 --> 01:20:14,150
track of who of how many follow through

1345
01:20:20,979 --> 01:20:18,650
to see a therapist that is something

1346
01:20:24,100 --> 01:20:20,989
that they enter into in a private

1347
01:20:26,560 --> 01:20:24,110
relationship if they want to share it

1348
01:20:29,740 --> 01:20:26,570
with us with that person that they've

1349
01:20:34,780 --> 01:20:29,750
worked with that's fine but I insist

1350
01:20:36,910 --> 01:20:34,790
that all of this remain confidential and

1351
01:20:39,880 --> 01:20:36,920
and I respect that it would have to be

1352
01:20:42,590 --> 01:20:39,890
that okay so let let me ask you this Ted

1353
01:20:48,490 --> 01:20:42,600
Kathleen if you were going to make a

1354
01:20:55,850 --> 01:20:52,420
probably less than half less than half

1355
01:20:56,690 --> 01:20:55,860
yeah that's our society today that's it

1356
01:20:58,730 --> 01:20:56,700
that's it

1357
01:21:00,620 --> 01:20:58,740
let's take our break right here this is

1358
01:21:02,630 --> 01:21:00,630
fade to black I'm use to me church our

1359
01:21:04,790 --> 01:21:02,640
guest tonight Kathleen Martin we're

1360
01:21:07,510 --> 01:21:04,800
talking about her book extraterrestrial

1361
01:21:08,720 --> 01:21:07,520
contact what to do when you've been

1362
01:21:10,460 --> 01:21:08,730
abducted

1363
01:21:14,410 --> 01:21:10,470
I'm your host Jimmy Church we'll be

1364
01:21:14,420 --> 01:21:23,610
[Music]

1365
01:21:27,550 --> 01:21:25,900
welcome back fade to black I'm your host

1366
01:21:29,560 --> 01:21:27,560
Jimmy Church right yes tonight Cathleen

1367
01:21:32,950 --> 01:21:29,570
Martin tomorrow night

1368
01:21:35,650 --> 01:21:32,960
dr. Lynne khatai joins us the Phoenix

1369
01:21:39,040 --> 01:21:35,660
lights we're talking about Kathleen's

1370
01:21:40,330 --> 01:21:39,050
new book extraterrestrial contact and

1371
01:21:42,880 --> 01:21:40,340
you can get your own autographed copy

1372
01:21:45,640 --> 01:21:42,890
just go and visit Kathleen at her

1373
01:21:49,900 --> 01:21:45,650
website the links are at Jimmy Church

1374
01:21:52,900 --> 01:21:49,910
radio.com now Kathleen I'd like to

1375
01:21:55,840 --> 01:21:52,910
switch gears how do we investigate how

1376
01:22:00,880 --> 01:21:55,850
do how do we actually investigate our

1377
01:22:02,980 --> 01:22:00,890
own abduction it's really important to

1378
01:22:04,840 --> 01:22:02,990
do that and the first thing as I

1379
01:22:08,440 --> 01:22:04,850
mentioned earlier is to keep a journal

1380
01:22:14,020 --> 01:22:08,450
and a pen by your bedside to record all

1381
01:22:17,400 --> 01:22:14,030
of your memories immediately also make

1382
01:22:20,200 --> 01:22:17,410
sure you have a camera in working order

1383
01:22:23,380 --> 01:22:20,210
because after you've had this experience

1384
01:22:24,220 --> 01:22:23,390
you should go before a full-length

1385
01:22:29,890 --> 01:22:24,230
mirror

1386
01:22:33,760 --> 01:22:29,900
strip down and examine your body see if

1387
01:22:38,560 --> 01:22:33,770
there are any unusual patterned marks on

1388
01:22:42,130 --> 01:22:38,570
your body I'm not so thinking about bug

1389
01:22:44,920 --> 01:22:42,140
bite or a puncture wound I'm thinking

1390
01:22:49,330 --> 01:22:44,930
about pattern marks and I'm not going to

1391
01:22:55,690 --> 01:22:49,340
tell you what they are but we on my team

1392
01:22:59,740 --> 01:22:55,700
keep a photo album of marks that we have

1393
01:23:03,490 --> 01:22:59,750
collected and you can send for that

1394
01:23:06,040 --> 01:23:03,500
photograph to the person on the ERT that

1395
01:23:09,540 --> 01:23:06,050
you speak with and that person can

1396
01:23:14,560 --> 01:23:09,550
compare them to the other photos in our

1397
01:23:17,200 --> 01:23:14,570
collection so to let you know if we have

1398
01:23:19,630 --> 01:23:17,210
something that looks like that how often

1399
01:23:21,460 --> 01:23:19,640
does that happen it did does that happen

1400
01:23:26,830 --> 01:23:21,470
a lot or you're looking at something to

1401
01:23:31,330 --> 01:23:26,840
go oh well here we go well yes I find

1402
01:23:34,850 --> 01:23:31,340
the most unusual pattern marks in

1403
01:23:37,880 --> 01:23:34,860
photographs on people's bodies

1404
01:23:40,070 --> 01:23:37,890
different states these people don't know

1405
01:23:43,400 --> 01:23:40,080
one another they've never seen these

1406
01:23:48,080 --> 01:23:43,410
marks before and yet I'm receiving them

1407
01:23:50,090 --> 01:23:48,090
from different people pretty amazing

1408
01:23:52,220 --> 01:23:50,100
okay I'm not talking about the

1409
01:23:54,740 --> 01:23:52,230
old-fashioned scoop marks these are

1410
01:23:58,220 --> 01:23:54,750
pretty elaborate right right right

1411
01:24:01,910 --> 01:23:58,230
and I like yeah yeah and and again

1412
01:24:04,460 --> 01:24:01,920
keeping everything like this it keeps

1413
01:24:08,960 --> 01:24:04,470
the I'm just going to say it it keeps

1414
01:24:11,660 --> 01:24:08,970
the hoaxing out of it right scientific

1415
01:24:12,050 --> 01:24:11,670
value in it that's right that's exactly

1416
01:24:14,170 --> 01:24:12,060
right

1417
01:24:18,860 --> 01:24:14,180
okay so that's that's number two

1418
01:24:25,360 --> 01:24:18,870
photograph your body number three if you

1419
01:24:29,150 --> 01:24:25,370
have a UV flashlight go into a dark room

1420
01:24:31,490 --> 01:24:29,160
again strip down and examine your body

1421
01:24:34,910 --> 01:24:31,500
with the flashlight to see if you have

1422
01:24:38,030 --> 01:24:34,920
any patterns florescent marks on your

1423
01:24:42,290 --> 01:24:38,040
body now things like oils and soap

1424
01:24:44,480 --> 01:24:42,300
residues can cause fluorescence on your

1425
01:24:47,090 --> 01:24:44,490
body as well but these would be

1426
01:24:52,670 --> 01:24:47,100
patterned marks that you'd be looking

1427
01:24:55,400 --> 01:24:52,680
for and if you see those take your

1428
01:24:59,990 --> 01:24:55,410
camera without a flash and photograph

1429
01:25:02,600 --> 01:25:00,000
those marks and also send those to the

1430
01:25:05,900 --> 01:25:02,610
person on muffins experience or research

1431
01:25:08,450 --> 01:25:05,910
team that you're working with and if you

1432
01:25:11,330 --> 01:25:08,460
don't have a UV flashlight I recommend

1433
01:25:18,350 --> 01:25:11,340
that you get one I was able to pick one

1434
01:25:21,050 --> 01:25:18,360
up at a flea market for five dollars

1435
01:25:25,340 --> 01:25:21,060
I've also have an extremely expensive

1436
01:25:28,210 --> 01:25:25,350
one that doctors use but to begin with

1437
01:25:34,430 --> 01:25:28,220
the five dollar one will work just fine

1438
01:25:37,370 --> 01:25:34,440
number four get an electromagnetic field

1439
01:25:40,760 --> 01:25:37,380
detector or a Trifield meter if you

1440
01:25:43,370 --> 01:25:40,770
really want to get into this but then

1441
01:25:47,000 --> 01:25:43,380
you might get to the point of obsession

1442
01:25:47,930 --> 01:25:47,010
and so it might be dangerous for some

1443
01:25:52,850 --> 01:25:47,940
people

1444
01:25:57,380 --> 01:25:52,860
I know that if you for example have a

1445
01:26:00,350 --> 01:25:57,390
game camera an infrared game camera that

1446
01:26:04,390 --> 01:26:00,360
is motion activated and you set it up in

1447
01:26:08,930 --> 01:26:04,400
your room and you have to check that

1448
01:26:11,150 --> 01:26:08,940
tape every of that disc every morning

1449
01:26:13,760 --> 01:26:11,160
after you think you've had an experience

1450
01:26:16,760 --> 01:26:13,770
you you could become obsessive about it

1451
01:26:21,110 --> 01:26:16,770
so that's probably not really healthy to

1452
01:26:24,140 --> 01:26:21,120
do but if you have an interest you can

1453
01:26:27,290 --> 01:26:24,150
you can certainly purchase those items

1454
01:26:30,620 --> 01:26:27,300
and there they can be more expensive I

1455
01:26:35,000 --> 01:26:30,630
don't know if I want you know I don't

1456
01:26:41,570 --> 01:26:35,010
know if I want to see something happen

1457
01:26:46,400 --> 01:26:41,580
in my room while I'm sleeping serious

1458
01:26:50,810 --> 01:26:46,410
here you know that some things are this

1459
01:26:52,850 --> 01:26:50,820
is me personally I don't know if I want

1460
01:26:55,490 --> 01:26:52,860
to know that because you know what

1461
01:27:00,440 --> 01:26:55,500
happens you know it does but then you go

1462
01:27:04,150 --> 01:27:00,450
and you see it oh no but Jimmy what I

1463
01:27:09,320 --> 01:27:04,160
find is one of two different things

1464
01:27:14,120 --> 01:27:09,330
happens people who are awake and they

1465
01:27:17,710 --> 01:27:14,130
have a cellphone with a camera or a

1466
01:27:21,370 --> 01:27:17,720
smartphone on iPhone have been able to

1467
01:27:25,250 --> 01:27:21,380
capture photographs of nonhumans in

1468
01:27:28,610 --> 01:27:25,260
their room and orbs in their rooms that

1469
01:27:32,690 --> 01:27:28,620
they can see with the naked eye so that

1470
01:27:35,360 --> 01:27:32,700
it is a value in some cases the other

1471
01:27:41,000 --> 01:27:35,370
thing that I have seen happen in cases

1472
01:27:45,470 --> 01:27:41,010
is that the camera shuts down but in one

1473
01:27:48,890 --> 01:27:45,480
of those cases the experiencers were

1474
01:27:51,440 --> 01:27:48,900
back to back this is a couple the man is

1475
01:27:54,800 --> 01:27:51,450
looking in one direction toward the

1476
01:27:57,440 --> 01:27:54,810
bedroom door the woman is looking in the

1477
01:28:00,729 --> 01:27:57,450
other direction out the window they see

1478
01:28:05,100 --> 01:28:00,739
light outside the window

1479
01:28:09,910 --> 01:28:05,110
and then suddenly that camera shuts down

1480
01:28:12,640 --> 01:28:09,920
for two hours and 11 minutes and the

1481
01:28:17,200 --> 01:28:12,650
next thing that you see on that camera

1482
01:28:20,979 --> 01:28:17,210
is the woman is in motion almost as if

1483
01:28:26,500 --> 01:28:20,989
she's being slipped into her bed under

1484
01:28:33,640 --> 01:28:26,510
the covers and the man is now lying down

1485
01:28:36,910 --> 01:28:33,650
on that bed you bring up the sleep

1486
01:28:40,900 --> 01:28:36,920
paralysis aspect of this I think there's

1487
01:28:43,180 --> 01:28:40,910
so many of us go through it I have and I

1488
01:28:45,940 --> 01:28:43,190
want to I want to address that for a

1489
01:28:48,640 --> 01:28:45,950
second you spent some time on this in

1490
01:28:52,080 --> 01:28:48,650
the book too as well what do we do when

1491
01:28:55,990 --> 01:28:52,090
we experience sleep paralysis

1492
01:29:02,709 --> 01:28:56,000
well your body is simply out of sync

1493
01:29:06,280 --> 01:29:02,719
with your REM sleep and so you are

1494
01:29:10,530 --> 01:29:06,290
you're half asleep and and half awake

1495
01:29:16,120 --> 01:29:10,540
but you're still four sleep paralysis

1496
01:29:20,440 --> 01:29:16,130
you can see shadowy figures you can feel

1497
01:29:22,450 --> 01:29:20,450
very very fearful during this experience

1498
01:29:25,500 --> 01:29:22,460
and it's perfectly normal and natural

1499
01:29:29,260 --> 01:29:25,510
many humans have sleep paralysis

1500
01:29:32,170 --> 01:29:29,270
normally if you see something hovering

1501
01:29:35,020 --> 01:29:32,180
above you it's going to be geometric

1502
01:29:39,100 --> 01:29:35,030
shapes or it might be a disembodied head

1503
01:29:43,930 --> 01:29:39,110
or something like that it is not a

1504
01:29:48,370 --> 01:29:43,940
complete experience and in a very short

1505
01:29:52,300 --> 01:29:48,380
period of time your body will catch up

1506
01:29:54,700 --> 01:29:52,310
with your brain and you will be out of

1507
01:29:57,310 --> 01:29:54,710
it but in that time where you're having

1508
01:30:00,070 --> 01:29:57,320
that your urine REM sleep and you're

1509
01:30:07,120 --> 01:30:00,080
still paralyzed you're able to move only

1510
01:30:09,729 --> 01:30:07,130
your eyes and I I went through a couple

1511
01:30:12,430 --> 01:30:09,739
of nights here on the show open lines

1512
01:30:14,950 --> 01:30:12,440
where we discussed

1513
01:30:17,380 --> 01:30:14,960
one phone call after another about sleep

1514
01:30:20,770 --> 01:30:17,390
paralysis and I know what I went through

1515
01:30:25,000 --> 01:30:20,780
it's only happened to me once but I know

1516
01:30:27,010 --> 01:30:25,010
what I went through and I've kept it

1517
01:30:30,160 --> 01:30:27,020
like your photographs right I keep I

1518
01:30:32,680 --> 01:30:30,170
keep my experience to myself and I want

1519
01:30:36,310 --> 01:30:32,690
to hear what others went through so I

1520
01:30:41,050 --> 01:30:36,320
could find out if they are you know if

1521
01:30:46,510 --> 01:30:41,060
it was a real experience or not but is

1522
01:30:50,590 --> 01:30:46,520
there contact experiences where you are

1523
01:30:53,650 --> 01:30:50,600
being held motionless not because of the

1524
01:30:57,040 --> 01:30:53,660
REM sleep but because there is something

1525
01:30:59,860 --> 01:30:57,050
physical there that is that is holding

1526
01:31:05,050 --> 01:30:59,870
you down and is is keeping you from

1527
01:31:07,600 --> 01:31:05,060
reacting yes I certainly and one of the

1528
01:31:11,500 --> 01:31:07,610
questions that we asked on one of our

1529
01:31:13,360 --> 01:31:11,510
research studies was first did have you

1530
01:31:18,310 --> 01:31:13,370
experienced the symptoms with sleep

1531
01:31:21,189 --> 01:31:18,320
paralysis we listed them and 74 percent

1532
01:31:25,090 --> 01:31:21,199
of experiences said yes 90% of our

1533
01:31:29,290 --> 01:31:25,100
abductee group we asked then were you

1534
01:31:31,870 --> 01:31:29,300
awake did you see non-human entities in

1535
01:31:37,630 --> 01:31:31,880
your room and then did you become

1536
01:31:40,330 --> 01:31:37,640
paralyzed in that group 36 percent of

1537
01:31:44,860 --> 01:31:40,340
the experience who said yes sixty

1538
01:31:47,229 --> 01:31:44,870
percent of the abductee group so more of

1539
01:31:51,160 --> 01:31:47,239
the abductee group is having this happen

1540
01:31:54,550 --> 01:31:51,170
where they they actually see that light

1541
01:31:56,890 --> 01:31:54,560
in their room they actually see the

1542
01:32:01,360 --> 01:31:56,900
entities they're awake and then they

1543
01:32:03,340 --> 01:32:01,370
become paralyzed this is some even fight

1544
01:32:05,830 --> 01:32:03,350
against that I wrote about that in the

1545
01:32:10,180 --> 01:32:05,840
alien abduction files and an experience

1546
01:32:12,790 --> 01:32:10,190
that Jenny Henderson had where her

1547
01:32:15,820 --> 01:32:12,800
husband actually got up out of bed when

1548
01:32:19,780 --> 01:32:15,830
this activity was happening in the room

1549
01:32:25,479 --> 01:32:19,790
and they just laid him down and he was

1550
01:32:26,270 --> 01:32:25,489
out cold immediately she was wanted to

1551
01:32:27,790 --> 01:32:26,280
escape

1552
01:32:32,089 --> 01:32:27,800
she was having a fight-or-flight

1553
01:32:36,430 --> 01:32:32,099
response and this paralysis crept

1554
01:32:41,060 --> 01:32:36,440
through her body and then she was

1555
01:32:44,839 --> 01:32:41,070
paralyzed and motionless but she had

1556
01:32:47,049 --> 01:32:44,849
also had something happen where she was

1557
01:32:48,379 --> 01:32:47,059
no longer feeling that fight-or-flight

1558
01:32:53,180 --> 01:32:48,389
response

1559
01:32:58,569 --> 01:32:53,190
she was now comfortable and calm why is

1560
01:33:02,810 --> 01:32:58,579
it that some experiences are terrifying

1561
01:33:06,350 --> 01:33:02,820
some are completely benevolent and and

1562
01:33:11,930 --> 01:33:06,360
peaceful you know is it because it's two

1563
01:33:15,310 --> 01:33:11,940
different extraterrestrial species that

1564
01:33:18,760 --> 01:33:15,320
are doing this is it up to the

1565
01:33:21,859 --> 01:33:18,770
experiencer or the abductee you know

1566
01:33:26,540 --> 01:33:21,869
because the community is divided on this

1567
01:33:30,100 --> 01:33:26,550
issue yes and and you know I have worked

1568
01:33:33,290 --> 01:33:30,110
with an experiencer it was in a multiple

1569
01:33:37,069 --> 01:33:33,300
abduction three people taken at the same

1570
01:33:42,350 --> 01:33:37,079
time out at night looking into the sky

1571
01:33:44,450 --> 01:33:42,360
there's a craft that comes down and so

1572
01:33:47,510 --> 01:33:44,460
quickly that they don't know what's

1573
01:33:49,490 --> 01:33:47,520
happening there's a blue light that's

1574
01:33:52,580 --> 01:33:49,500
coming out of it and the next thing they

1575
01:33:54,560 --> 01:33:52,590
know they're standing on the wet ground

1576
01:33:57,290 --> 01:33:54,570
all of the equipment's they were holding

1577
01:34:01,040 --> 01:33:57,300
is on the ground they go into the house

1578
01:34:03,379 --> 01:34:01,050
and one of the experiences spouses says

1579
01:34:06,160 --> 01:34:03,389
where have you been for the past two

1580
01:34:11,770 --> 01:34:06,170
hours I've been looking for you well

1581
01:34:14,870 --> 01:34:11,780
these people were very distressed yet I

1582
01:34:17,930 --> 01:34:14,880
used quantum healing hypnosis that

1583
01:34:21,290 --> 01:34:17,940
technique on one of them it was the case

1584
01:34:25,939 --> 01:34:21,300
I was investigating and come to find out

1585
01:34:30,109 --> 01:34:25,949
she had been picked up and contacted by

1586
01:34:33,950 --> 01:34:30,119
the benevolent human types but it was

1587
01:34:37,459 --> 01:34:33,960
not knowing what happened that caused

1588
01:34:39,890 --> 01:34:37,469
the trauma I think that you know some

1589
01:34:43,250 --> 01:34:39,900
people if you do remember

1590
01:34:45,560 --> 01:34:43,260
and it's something that is causing a

1591
01:34:49,640 --> 01:34:45,570
great deal of fear I can understand why

1592
01:34:53,650 --> 01:34:49,650
you would be having that traumatic

1593
01:34:57,670 --> 01:34:53,660
experience as well but I think that our

1594
01:35:02,390 --> 01:34:57,680
perception of what is occurring is often

1595
01:35:07,550 --> 01:35:02,400
colored by our emotional reaction to it

1596
01:35:10,340 --> 01:35:07,560
and we know that certainly not all of

1597
01:35:13,820 --> 01:35:10,350
these entities are kind not all of them

1598
01:35:16,130 --> 01:35:13,830
are respectful some of them seem to care

1599
01:35:18,680 --> 01:35:16,140
very little about humans whereas there

1600
01:35:22,550 --> 01:35:18,690
are others who care a great deal

1601
01:35:26,150 --> 01:35:22,560
it doesn't matter if it's Gray's there

1602
01:35:30,290 --> 01:35:26,160
are Gray's who are kind and caring and

1603
01:35:33,650 --> 01:35:30,300
there are Grey's that traumatized people

1604
01:35:37,550 --> 01:35:33,660
I don't know if they're all the same and

1605
01:35:41,690 --> 01:35:37,560
if it's the person's emotional reaction

1606
01:35:45,110 --> 01:35:41,700
to what is occurring or not but you know

1607
01:35:47,540 --> 01:35:45,120
and it's the stage where a person is as

1608
01:35:50,870 --> 01:35:47,550
they're working through this you go

1609
01:35:55,490 --> 01:35:50,880
through stages from and one of those

1610
01:35:57,650 --> 01:35:55,500
stages involves fear and anger and you

1611
01:36:02,570 --> 01:35:57,660
know maybe that's where that person is

1612
01:36:07,970 --> 01:36:02,580
at that point but eventually it seems

1613
01:36:10,160 --> 01:36:07,980
that most people as time goes on become

1614
01:36:13,010 --> 01:36:10,170
less fearful they're accustomed to

1615
01:36:15,860 --> 01:36:13,020
having this happen the more they can

1616
01:36:18,620 --> 01:36:15,870
understand about what has actually

1617
01:36:22,100 --> 01:36:18,630
happened the less fearful

1618
01:36:25,160 --> 01:36:22,110
they become and eventually some of them

1619
01:36:28,550 --> 01:36:25,170
can actually communicate with these

1620
01:36:32,210 --> 01:36:28,560
nonhumans and can ask questions you know

1621
01:36:37,250 --> 01:36:32,220
telepathically and receive answers so

1622
01:36:39,340 --> 01:36:37,260
you know it was funny in our study we

1623
01:36:44,060 --> 01:36:39,350
asked about the demeanor of the

1624
01:36:48,050 --> 01:36:44,070
nonhumans the 48% of the experiencers

1625
01:36:53,300 --> 01:36:48,060
said business-like 65% of the abductee

1626
01:36:57,800 --> 01:36:53,310
group were they evil 11% were they

1627
01:37:03,110 --> 01:36:57,810
Stoller sadistic less than 6% were they

1628
01:37:06,140 --> 01:37:03,120
kind between 20 and 30 percent said they

1629
01:37:09,560 --> 01:37:06,150
were kind they were friendly you know so

1630
01:37:13,040 --> 01:37:09,570
it a lot of it has to do with a human

1631
01:37:17,960 --> 01:37:13,050
perception and with the type of entity

1632
01:37:20,060 --> 01:37:17,970
they encounter I have a list of

1633
01:37:21,920 --> 01:37:20,070
questions here that have come in during

1634
01:37:23,500 --> 01:37:21,930
the show I'm going to get some of these

1635
01:37:26,090 --> 01:37:23,510
out of the way this is from Scott

1636
01:37:29,120 --> 01:37:26,100
speaking on this subject right here he

1637
01:37:32,840 --> 01:37:29,130
says Jimmy did Barney Hill ever find

1638
01:37:39,850 --> 01:37:32,850
peace in the end or was he continuously

1639
01:37:42,910 --> 01:37:39,860
in fear pine Barney did find some peace

1640
01:37:47,330 --> 01:37:42,920
after he saw doctor Benjamin Simon

1641
01:37:52,310 --> 01:37:47,340
underwent hypnotherapy and therapy for a

1642
01:37:55,580 --> 01:37:52,320
period of six months he seemed to feel a

1643
01:37:59,360 --> 01:37:55,590
lot better about what had happened to

1644
01:38:01,610 --> 01:37:59,370
him but this was always to remain

1645
01:38:08,620 --> 01:38:01,620
confidential

1646
01:38:11,060 --> 01:38:08,630
by a friend of Betty's who was a UFO

1647
01:38:13,850 --> 01:38:11,070
investigator that Betty trusted and

1648
01:38:17,030 --> 01:38:13,860
confided in this woman spoke to a

1649
01:38:20,000 --> 01:38:17,040
newspaper reporter it was revealed to

1650
01:38:25,540 --> 01:38:20,010
the public in five newspaper articles in

1651
01:38:27,080 --> 01:38:25,550
the Boston traveler in late October of

1652
01:38:32,710 --> 01:38:27,090
1965

1653
01:38:36,430 --> 01:38:32,720
and when that occurred Barney again

1654
01:38:39,350 --> 01:38:36,440
experienced a new kind of trauma

1655
01:38:42,890 --> 01:38:39,360
Barney was very committed to the civil

1656
01:38:47,270 --> 01:38:42,900
rights movement Barney was a very

1657
01:38:50,090 --> 01:38:47,280
upstanding individual he was active in

1658
01:38:52,910 --> 01:38:50,100
politics we were even invited to Lyndon

1659
01:38:55,490 --> 01:38:52,920
Johnson's inauguration and the three of

1660
01:38:57,740 --> 01:38:55,500
us went together Barney had been

1661
01:39:02,380 --> 01:38:57,750
appointed to the u.s. Commission on

1662
01:39:06,830 --> 01:39:02,390
civil rights as a state state advisory

1663
01:39:10,820 --> 01:39:06,840
committee member all of that changed

1664
01:39:15,470 --> 01:39:10,830
when Barney was revealed to the public

1665
01:39:22,280 --> 01:39:15,480
as an abductee of taken by aliens

1666
01:39:23,690 --> 01:39:22,290
he changed him again and I'm looking at

1667
01:39:26,360 --> 01:39:23,700
the clock we're gonna run out of time

1668
01:39:28,070 --> 01:39:26,370
I've got all these questions can I get

1669
01:39:30,830 --> 01:39:28,080
you to do overtime can we do some

1670
01:39:32,420 --> 01:39:30,840
overtime after the break yes we can

1671
01:39:34,820 --> 01:39:32,430
Thank You Kathleen and you weren't gonna

1672
01:39:40,610 --> 01:39:34,830
say no I knew better than I'm having so

1673
01:39:43,070 --> 01:39:40,620
much fun how can I say is growing up you

1674
01:39:47,360 --> 01:39:43,080
know because obviously you knew your

1675
01:39:49,790 --> 01:39:47,370
aunt and uncle before and after how did

1676
01:39:55,490 --> 01:39:49,800
that affect you to see this change in

1677
01:39:58,460 --> 01:39:55,500
your uncle Barney it I was extremely

1678
01:40:01,700 --> 01:39:58,470
concerned about Barney and you know I

1679
01:40:04,790 --> 01:40:01,710
was 13 when it happened I was a teenager

1680
01:40:08,210 --> 01:40:04,800
mid teens to late teens as they were

1681
01:40:12,340 --> 01:40:08,220
going through all of the the after shock

1682
01:40:14,930 --> 01:40:12,350
of not only finding out what happened

1683
01:40:19,040 --> 01:40:14,940
through hypnosis separate hypnosis

1684
01:40:20,390 --> 01:40:19,050
sessions but also after the violation of

1685
01:40:24,500 --> 01:40:20,400
confidentiality

1686
01:40:28,160 --> 01:40:24,510
it was extremely distressing to watch

1687
01:40:31,580 --> 01:40:28,170
Betty and Barney go through this and as

1688
01:40:34,520 --> 01:40:31,590
a family we attempted to to help them

1689
01:40:36,590 --> 01:40:34,530
when those newspaper articles appeared

1690
01:40:40,510 --> 01:40:36,600
in the Boston traveler Betty and Barney

1691
01:40:44,270 --> 01:40:40,520
drove down to my grandparents home and

1692
01:40:50,420 --> 01:40:44,280
we met as a family to decide what to do

1693
01:40:52,400 --> 01:40:50,430
next and and what did you do we agreed

1694
01:40:55,810 --> 01:40:52,410
that since the cat was out of the bag

1695
01:40:59,300 --> 01:40:55,820
that Betty and Barney should agree to

1696
01:41:03,380 --> 01:40:59,310
speak for the first time to a public

1697
01:41:06,710 --> 01:41:03,390
audience about this they did so at the

1698
01:41:09,980 --> 01:41:06,720
Unitarian Universalist Church in Dover

1699
01:41:14,540 --> 01:41:09,990
New Hampshire and they were introduced

1700
01:41:17,510 --> 01:41:14,550
by the public information officer from

1701
01:41:20,810 --> 01:41:17,520
Pease Air Force Base what

1702
01:41:24,940 --> 01:41:20,820
did you think this is from Dan what are

1703
01:41:29,090 --> 01:41:24,950
your thoughts on Project Blue Book and

1704
01:41:33,920 --> 01:41:29,100
the way that they portrayed Betty as as

1705
01:41:37,520 --> 01:41:33,930
a black woman he's talking about the the

1706
01:41:42,020 --> 01:41:37,530
show on TV that's the last episode of

1707
01:41:44,860 --> 01:41:42,030
Project Blue Book that I watched you

1708
01:41:50,270 --> 01:41:44,870
should watch it again after that episode

1709
01:41:54,680 --> 01:41:50,280
because that program in no way resembled

1710
01:41:56,540 --> 01:41:54,690
Betty's and Barney's experiences Betty

1711
01:42:02,120 --> 01:41:56,550
and Barney

1712
01:42:05,510 --> 01:42:02,130
holding a gun on Allen Hynek and on the

1713
01:42:10,400 --> 01:42:05,520
Air Force officer that I mean it was

1714
01:42:13,520 --> 01:42:10,410
completely absurd ludicrous I think it

1715
01:42:15,890 --> 01:42:13,530
was outrageous and and they had

1716
01:42:21,350 --> 01:42:15,900
contacted me to tell me they were doing

1717
01:42:24,140 --> 01:42:21,360
a segment on Betty and Barney and I said

1718
01:42:26,390 --> 01:42:24,150
I have all of the files I can give you

1719
01:42:28,820 --> 01:42:26,400
anything you want I'm a stickler for

1720
01:42:31,690 --> 01:42:28,830
accuracy I'd be happy to help you out

1721
01:42:36,830 --> 01:42:31,700
and they said oh we don't need any help

1722
01:42:39,530 --> 01:42:36,840
obviously the the way that they went

1723
01:42:44,650 --> 01:42:39,540
about it not only with the Betty and

1724
01:42:49,490 --> 01:42:44,660
Barney case but all of the cases

1725
01:42:53,900 --> 01:42:49,500
everything was given this artistic

1726
01:42:57,650 --> 01:42:53,910
license to go into sensationalism when

1727
01:43:01,160 --> 01:42:57,660
it's in direct contrast to the way that

1728
01:43:03,890 --> 01:43:01,170
they introduced an outro the show these

1729
01:43:06,050 --> 01:43:03,900
are the official case files of Project

1730
01:43:09,050 --> 01:43:06,060
Blue Book everything you are about to

1731
01:43:11,390 --> 01:43:09,060
see is real right and they do all of

1732
01:43:13,910 --> 01:43:11,400
that well the audience out there

1733
01:43:16,550 --> 01:43:13,920
Kathleen you know this that isn't

1734
01:43:18,550 --> 01:43:16,560
familiar with the UFO subject or Betty

1735
01:43:20,960 --> 01:43:18,560
and Barney Hill or any of these cases

1736
01:43:22,060 --> 01:43:20,970
are going to think that that's exactly

1737
01:43:25,640 --> 01:43:22,070
how it went down

1738
01:43:29,330 --> 01:43:25,650
yes and I was wondering is this a new

1739
01:43:31,459 --> 01:43:29,340
form of disinformation right that was my

1740
01:43:34,609 --> 01:43:31,469
first thought it did

1741
01:43:39,560 --> 01:43:34,619
you blow a gasket just tell me the truth

1742
01:43:42,439 --> 01:43:39,570
yes I blew again i watch the video and

1743
01:43:45,560 --> 01:43:42,449
he's firing off rounds on an Air Force

1744
01:43:48,649 --> 01:43:45,570
Base in the office you know now

1745
01:43:51,410 --> 01:43:48,659
surrounded by military police he's now

1746
01:43:54,169 --> 01:43:51,420
kidnapped J Allen Hynek right and

1747
01:43:57,370 --> 01:43:54,179
holding him against his will and I'm

1748
01:44:00,979 --> 01:43:57,380
thinking who is writing this crap but

1749
01:44:03,319 --> 01:44:00,989
people are believing it unfortunately

1750
01:44:06,580 --> 01:44:03,329
and so I guess I have to work even

1751
01:44:10,310 --> 01:44:06,590
harder to inform the public of the truth

1752
01:44:11,899 --> 01:44:10,320
it was a I can't believe and they're

1753
01:44:14,569 --> 01:44:11,909
gonna come out with another season

1754
01:44:21,140 --> 01:44:14,579
they're gonna do another season of that

1755
01:44:24,879 --> 01:44:21,150
crap but yeah yeah if they I'm gonna say

1756
01:44:28,339 --> 01:44:24,889
this I'm gonna say this as an

1757
01:44:30,529 --> 01:44:28,349
entertainment show if they took out the

1758
01:44:32,689 --> 01:44:30,539
front and back you know that this is all

1759
01:44:36,350 --> 01:44:32,699
official I feel sorry for the Hynek

1760
01:44:38,870 --> 01:44:36,360
family too as well I mean they just they

1761
01:44:40,609 --> 01:44:38,880
just took this to so many different

1762
01:44:44,299 --> 01:44:40,619
directions but if it was just

1763
01:44:47,000 --> 01:44:44,309
entertainment value funny haha okay

1764
01:44:51,229 --> 01:44:47,010
alright it's a watchable show but you

1765
01:44:53,359 --> 01:44:51,239
can't represent it as fact and that that

1766
01:44:56,089 --> 01:44:53,369
I think is wrong and is doing a

1767
01:44:58,129 --> 01:44:56,099
disservice n to the historical record

1768
01:45:00,049 --> 01:44:58,139
and the families and and and friends

1769
01:45:01,640 --> 01:45:00,059
that are directly involved with this

1770
01:45:07,009 --> 01:45:01,650
show and that's the part that's uncool

1771
01:45:08,810 --> 01:45:07,019
very uncool let's let's take a break

1772
01:45:10,009 --> 01:45:08,820
right here and we'll come back we'll do

1773
01:45:11,739 --> 01:45:10,019
some overtime I've got a bunch of

1774
01:45:14,330 --> 01:45:11,749
questions here from the audience and

1775
01:45:17,299 --> 01:45:14,340
we'll get to all of those our guest

1776
01:45:19,359 --> 01:45:17,309
tonight is Kathleen Mardon we are

1777
01:45:22,279 --> 01:45:19,369
talking about her new book

1778
01:45:23,870 --> 01:45:22,289
extraterrestrial contact what to do when

1779
01:45:25,969 --> 01:45:23,880
you've been abducted I'm holding it up

1780
01:45:27,680 --> 01:45:25,979
to the camera right there you can have

1781
01:45:29,239 --> 01:45:27,690
it over to Kathleen's website you get

1782
01:45:31,100 --> 01:45:29,249
yourself an autographed copy

1783
01:45:33,200 --> 01:45:31,110
this is fade to black our meals Jimmy

1784
01:45:35,350 --> 01:45:33,210
Church more with Kathleen after this

1785
01:45:47,490 --> 01:45:35,360
short break stay with us

1786
01:45:51,250 --> 01:45:49,720
welcome back fade to black what an

1787
01:45:54,189 --> 01:45:51,260
amazing conversation tonight with

1788
01:45:57,149 --> 01:45:54,199
Kathleen Martin do you knew it was gonna

1789
01:45:59,410 --> 01:45:57,159
happen going into some overtime here

1790
01:46:03,879 --> 01:45:59,420
discussing her amazing new book it is

1791
01:46:04,990 --> 01:46:03,889
called extra-terrestrial contact and you

1792
01:46:06,819 --> 01:46:05,000
can get yourself an autographed copy

1793
01:46:09,850 --> 01:46:06,829
over a Kathleen's website to link Terry

1794
01:46:11,919 --> 01:46:09,860
- mutes radio comm I've got a bunch of

1795
01:46:15,520 --> 01:46:11,929
questions from the audience who are you

1796
01:46:18,819 --> 01:46:15,530
ready to go rapid fire I am let let's do

1797
01:46:23,470 --> 01:46:18,829
this okay yeah I'm gonna start from the

1798
01:46:26,640 --> 01:46:23,480
latest they're clicking by here okay has

1799
01:46:30,490 --> 01:46:26,650
anyone noticed that Bob lazarre's

1800
01:46:32,770 --> 01:46:30,500
briefings said that they were from Zeta

1801
01:46:35,950 --> 01:46:32,780
Reticuli and Betty and Barney's

1802
01:46:39,160 --> 01:46:35,960
experience says the same thing is that

1803
01:46:41,160 --> 01:46:39,170
not confirmation has Kathleen made that

1804
01:46:46,629 --> 01:46:41,170
connection and if so what conclusions

1805
01:46:51,330 --> 01:46:46,639
has she drawn from it well I have made

1806
01:46:54,850 --> 01:46:51,340
that connection but Marjorie fish

1807
01:46:58,180 --> 01:46:54,860
identified the two most prominent stars

1808
01:47:05,770 --> 01:46:58,190
on Betty star map as they two Reticuli

1809
01:47:09,220 --> 01:47:05,780
one and two back in 1971 anyone could

1810
01:47:11,140 --> 01:47:09,230
have heard that information and stated

1811
01:47:15,549 --> 01:47:11,150
that they were from Zeta Reticuli

1812
01:47:18,069 --> 01:47:15,559
after that this is a point that gets

1813
01:47:21,430 --> 01:47:18,079
gets kind of forgotten in the Betty and

1814
01:47:23,890 --> 01:47:21,440
Barney Hill story the Marjorie fish the

1815
01:47:28,000 --> 01:47:23,900
star map the aspect of this Marjorie

1816
01:47:30,100 --> 01:47:28,010
fish was a teacher and she took I'll

1817
01:47:32,470 --> 01:47:30,110
never forget this when I had read this

1818
01:47:34,780 --> 01:47:32,480
originally and I was just a kid and I

1819
01:47:37,299 --> 01:47:34,790
was like holy crap okay there's that

1820
01:47:37,870 --> 01:47:37,309
there you go now we've got something

1821
01:47:42,069 --> 01:47:37,880
here

1822
01:47:47,010 --> 01:47:42,079
Marjorie fish took it upon herself to do

1823
01:47:51,580 --> 01:47:47,020
a 3d model of the stars that's it 23:23

1824
01:47:56,709 --> 01:47:51,590
3d mom and she puts us together and she

1825
01:47:58,990 --> 01:47:56,719
goes and somehow gets a copy of Betty's

1826
01:48:00,630 --> 01:47:59,000
star map that she drew I believe under

1827
01:48:03,270 --> 01:48:00,640
hypnosis right

1828
01:48:06,300 --> 01:48:03,280
she drew it as a result of a post

1829
01:48:08,550 --> 01:48:06,310
hypnotic suggestion right that she would

1830
01:48:10,170 --> 01:48:08,560
be able to drew it draw it if she

1831
01:48:13,200 --> 01:48:10,180
remembered it and could draw it

1832
01:48:17,850 --> 01:48:13,210
accurately and it didn't bother her too

1833
01:48:22,440 --> 01:48:17,860
badly and and so which was a star map of

1834
01:48:24,840 --> 01:48:22,450
the trade routes that these beings were

1835
01:48:29,160 --> 01:48:24,850
or we're doing this is where they

1836
01:48:31,560 --> 01:48:29,170
routinely went right that is correct and

1837
01:48:37,680 --> 01:48:31,570
when Betty was on the craft after her

1838
01:48:41,790 --> 01:48:37,690
examination she began to trust and lose

1839
01:48:45,000 --> 01:48:41,800
her fear of the escort who was with her

1840
01:48:48,750 --> 01:48:45,010
because he had taken her pain away when

1841
01:48:51,930 --> 01:48:48,760
a needle was plunged into her navel by

1842
01:48:55,470 --> 01:48:51,940
the examiner and so she was finished

1843
01:49:01,230 --> 01:48:55,480
she's dressed and she starts to look

1844
01:49:04,890 --> 01:49:01,240
around the room and she says to this one

1845
01:49:06,890 --> 01:49:04,900
that she called the leader I know you're

1846
01:49:11,520 --> 01:49:06,900
not from around here

1847
01:49:15,720 --> 01:49:11,530
what where is your home port and so he

1848
01:49:22,110 --> 01:49:15,730
produced a kind of a three-dimensional

1849
01:49:24,330 --> 01:49:22,120
image of this star map with stars that

1850
01:49:26,760 --> 01:49:24,340
were connected and and a few others that

1851
01:49:29,640 --> 01:49:26,770
were not there were many stars in the

1852
01:49:32,070 --> 01:49:29,650
background she said she only put a few

1853
01:49:34,940 --> 01:49:32,080
on the star map when she drew them and

1854
01:49:40,140 --> 01:49:34,950
some of those stars were connected by

1855
01:49:43,080 --> 01:49:40,150
solid lines and there were five of those

1856
01:49:47,660 --> 01:49:43,090
lines connecting Zeta Reticuli 1 and

1857
01:49:50,610 --> 01:49:47,670
Zeta Reticuli 2 and the solid lines

1858
01:49:54,050 --> 01:49:50,620
represented trade routes where as there

1859
01:49:57,000 --> 01:49:54,060
were daughter lines which represented

1860
01:50:00,000 --> 01:49:57,010
expeditions to some of those stars and

1861
01:50:04,110 --> 01:50:00,010
and the point that makes this so

1862
01:50:08,580 --> 01:50:04,120
incredible is that and correct me if I'm

1863
01:50:11,550 --> 01:50:08,590
wrong but Zeta Reticuli at that time

1864
01:50:13,760 --> 01:50:11,560
wasn't no it was behind the Sun we

1865
01:50:17,720 --> 01:50:13,770
hadn't sent out satellites

1866
01:50:21,080 --> 01:50:17,730
yet to to check out that part of the

1867
01:50:25,160 --> 01:50:21,090
Milky Way and Marjorie fish put this

1868
01:50:27,890 --> 01:50:25,170
together almost ten years later and she

1869
01:50:30,230 --> 01:50:27,900
went back to Betty's star map lined it

1870
01:50:33,500 --> 01:50:30,240
up with hers and when she's talking

1871
01:50:36,290 --> 01:50:33,510
about Zeta Reticuli which Betty could

1872
01:50:39,230 --> 01:50:36,300
not have possibly have known about am i

1873
01:50:41,840 --> 01:50:39,240
right about this no yes you are Betty

1874
01:50:44,870 --> 01:50:41,850
couldn't possibly have known about Zeta

1875
01:50:48,170 --> 01:50:44,880
Reticuli it can be observed only from

1876
01:50:52,340 --> 01:50:48,180
the southern hemisphere and it is a very

1877
01:50:57,920 --> 01:50:52,350
very dim star at that it's in the

1878
01:51:00,830 --> 01:50:57,930
constellation the net fascinating though

1879
01:51:03,850 --> 01:51:00,840
fascinating to me is that Marjorie built

1880
01:51:08,600 --> 01:51:03,860
those 23 models she was so persistent

1881
01:51:10,450 --> 01:51:08,610
going to the University copying the

1882
01:51:15,530 --> 01:51:10,460
distance data and all of the

1883
01:51:18,350 --> 01:51:15,540
characteristics of those stars out 5554

1884
01:51:20,960 --> 01:51:18,360
light-years and still didn't find a

1885
01:51:28,250 --> 01:51:20,970
match until there was new distance data

1886
01:51:31,130 --> 01:51:28,260
in the 1971 catalog and she then put

1887
01:51:34,370 --> 01:51:31,140
some stars onto the map that hadn't been

1888
01:51:36,170 --> 01:51:34,380
there previously she rearranged some

1889
01:51:40,550 --> 01:51:36,180
things according to the new distance

1890
01:51:43,820 --> 01:51:40,560
data and there was the match and the

1891
01:51:46,970 --> 01:51:43,830
interesting thing about those is that

1892
01:51:51,650 --> 01:51:46,980
all of them were believed to be sun-like

1893
01:51:54,770 --> 01:51:51,660
stars even though only 5% of the stars

1894
01:51:58,040 --> 01:51:54,780
in that section of our galaxy are

1895
01:52:03,440 --> 01:51:58,050
considered to be sun-like and all of the

1896
01:52:06,080 --> 01:52:03,450
stars on Betty's map bore sun-like next

1897
01:52:08,120 --> 01:52:06,090
question yes it is it is I'm looking at

1898
01:52:10,040 --> 01:52:08,130
the star map here thank you for that

1899
01:52:12,320 --> 01:52:10,050
Brian I'm looking at the original

1900
01:52:13,910 --> 01:52:12,330
picture which still freaks me out to

1901
01:52:17,000 --> 01:52:13,920
this day this is from Eddie Eddie says

1902
01:52:21,230 --> 01:52:17,010
hey JC could you please ask Kathleen

1903
01:52:26,010 --> 01:52:21,240
which case sighting etc she feels is the

1904
01:52:34,410 --> 01:52:31,410
my goodness that there are so many there

1905
01:52:39,840 --> 01:52:34,420
are so many that are very important I

1906
01:52:43,530 --> 01:52:39,850
can't name just one we've learned so

1907
01:52:46,020 --> 01:52:43,540
much from Betty and Barney to Travis

1908
01:52:49,260 --> 01:52:46,030
Walton that was very important Charlie

1909
01:52:52,740 --> 01:52:49,270
Hickson and Calvin Parker there were

1910
01:52:56,300 --> 01:52:52,750
three women in Kentucky where there were

1911
01:53:01,290 --> 01:52:56,310
witnesses and and had an experience that

1912
01:53:04,860 --> 01:53:01,300
was publicized early on there was the

1913
01:53:09,120 --> 01:53:04,870
allagash abduction in the allagash of

1914
01:53:13,710 --> 01:53:09,130
Maine there's the Linda Cortile case

1915
01:53:18,240 --> 01:53:13,720
from New York City and I know her and

1916
01:53:22,020 --> 01:53:18,250
and see her about once a year and I do

1917
01:53:25,260 --> 01:53:22,030
believe that that that is a true case

1918
01:53:29,760 --> 01:53:25,270
even though there has been a concerted

1919
01:53:32,310 --> 01:53:29,770
effort to slander her and debunk that

1920
01:53:35,820 --> 01:53:32,320
was that the case with the United

1921
01:53:41,360 --> 01:53:35,830
Nations yes it is yeah that's her that's

1922
01:53:43,110 --> 01:53:41,370
an amazing amazing case okay this comes

1923
01:53:48,000 --> 01:53:43,120
from

1924
01:53:50,490 --> 01:53:48,010
I can't Planet King in the last contact

1925
01:53:52,790 --> 01:53:50,500
in the desert was Kathleen Martin the

1926
01:53:58,680 --> 01:53:52,800
one doing the little theater room

1927
01:54:01,440 --> 01:53:58,690
conversation that's I attended little

1928
01:54:04,140 --> 01:54:01,450
theater that's what it says doing the

1929
01:54:09,360 --> 01:54:04,150
little theater room conversations I

1930
01:54:14,030 --> 01:54:09,370
attended I I guess I was not because I

1931
01:54:20,070 --> 01:54:14,040
was in the large theater on a panel I

1932
01:54:22,590 --> 01:54:20,080
did a group hypnosis session just to

1933
01:54:26,220 --> 01:54:22,600
give people an idea of what hypnosis you

1934
01:54:30,630 --> 01:54:26,230
did you did a group hypnosis yes I

1935
01:54:33,390 --> 01:54:30,640
wanted to be there for that I'm gonna be

1936
01:54:37,750 --> 01:54:33,400
doing it at the International UFO

1937
01:54:40,030 --> 01:54:37,760
Congress conference - down in Phoenix

1938
01:54:42,610 --> 01:54:40,040
next week yeah next week next week

1939
01:54:44,080 --> 01:54:42,620
you're gonna hypnotize the whole world

1940
01:54:46,090 --> 01:54:44,090
are you gonna bring somebody up on stage

1941
01:54:50,130 --> 01:54:46,100
and make him like bark like a dog

1942
01:54:56,470 --> 01:54:50,140
I don't do that kind of I'm going to

1943
01:54:59,410 --> 01:54:56,480
take them on a regression to a pleasant

1944
01:55:03,280 --> 01:54:59,420
experience in their life and I'm going

1945
01:55:05,560 --> 01:55:03,290
to do a little healing hypnosis session

1946
01:55:08,200 --> 01:55:05,570
with them as well that is so cool and I

1947
01:55:12,810 --> 01:55:08,210
I did that kind of thing you had contact

1948
01:55:15,430 --> 01:55:12,820
in the desert I did a lecture a

1949
01:55:19,479 --> 01:55:15,440
presentation but I didn't sit in a small

1950
01:55:22,180 --> 01:55:19,489
room and talk to people except for at my

1951
01:55:27,780 --> 01:55:22,190
vendor table right so I I really don't

1952
01:55:33,550 --> 01:55:27,790
know I guess I wasn't the one when I was

1953
01:55:35,790 --> 01:55:33,560
Darryl Simms said to me you know with my

1954
01:55:39,070 --> 01:55:35,800
little experience he said you know Jimmy

1955
01:55:41,380 --> 01:55:39,080
you need to do a regression you need to

1956
01:55:44,260 --> 01:55:41,390
go back to that moment something may

1957
01:55:46,000 --> 01:55:44,270
have happened and you should you should

1958
01:55:49,390 --> 01:55:46,010
be aware of it I think you should find

1959
01:55:51,760 --> 01:55:49,400
out and I said it I said no I don't want

1960
01:55:56,500 --> 01:55:51,770
to know I don't want to know the

1961
01:55:58,000 --> 01:55:56,510
experience freaked me out enough and I

1962
01:55:58,750 --> 01:55:58,010
don't want to go back I don't want to

1963
01:56:03,400 --> 01:55:58,760
visit it

1964
01:56:06,310 --> 01:56:03,410
if something happened it happened I just

1965
01:56:09,370 --> 01:56:06,320
don't want to know about it I really

1966
01:56:12,970 --> 01:56:09,380
just want to leave it leave it where it

1967
01:56:16,120 --> 01:56:12,980
is is that okay that is perfectly fine

1968
01:56:18,610 --> 01:56:16,130
and if you do find out and you don't

1969
01:56:21,130 --> 01:56:18,620
really want to find out it could cause

1970
01:56:23,860 --> 01:56:21,140
problems in your life you might become

1971
01:56:25,900 --> 01:56:23,870
fearful you might think that well gee

1972
01:56:28,860 --> 01:56:25,910
this is going to happen again and and

1973
01:56:33,970 --> 01:56:28,870
now I have all of this information and

1974
01:56:37,030 --> 01:56:33,980
I'm fearful now so yeah you you don't

1975
01:56:39,520 --> 01:56:37,040
have to learn about it if you don't want

1976
01:56:40,870 --> 01:56:39,530
to do what feels comfortable to you

1977
01:56:43,630 --> 01:56:40,880
we're all different

1978
01:56:47,979 --> 01:56:43,640
yeah I just want to let it go I do the

1979
01:56:50,860 --> 01:56:47,989
part that I remember that's that's a

1980
01:56:53,860 --> 01:56:50,870
death that's good enough as that's what

1981
01:56:54,700 --> 01:56:53,870
Barney wanted to do Barney wanted to

1982
01:56:59,620 --> 01:56:54,710
forget it

1983
01:57:03,910 --> 01:56:59,630
that's what caused so much trouble for

1984
01:57:08,470 --> 01:57:03,920
him well I don't know if I've told you

1985
01:57:11,590 --> 01:57:08,480
this before but I was living I just

1986
01:57:15,130 --> 01:57:11,600
moved into a house in Pasadena's 1984

1987
01:57:17,950 --> 01:57:15,140
and you know I'm 20 years old 21 years

1988
01:57:19,810 --> 01:57:17,960
old and I'm walking through the house is

1989
01:57:22,570 --> 01:57:19,820
empty no furniture

1990
01:57:26,650 --> 01:57:22,580
I've got suitcases all right that's it

1991
01:57:29,500 --> 01:57:26,660
and it's a five bedroom house and in one

1992
01:57:32,979 --> 01:57:29,510
of the front bedrooms I had kind of

1993
01:57:35,200 --> 01:57:32,989
chosen this back bedroom but in the in

1994
01:57:37,660 --> 01:57:35,210
the front bedroom I'm just walking

1995
01:57:40,479 --> 01:57:37,670
through and I see these on this top

1996
01:57:43,030 --> 01:57:40,489
shelf the house is empty I need to

1997
01:57:45,850 --> 01:57:43,040
emphasize that there's nothing in the

1998
01:57:48,490 --> 01:57:45,860
house I go in this bedroom and on the

1999
01:57:51,640 --> 01:57:48,500
top in the in the closet on the shelf

2000
01:57:53,950 --> 01:57:51,650
are two books on the back of this shelf

2001
01:57:56,440 --> 01:57:53,960
above where you know you hang your

2002
01:58:00,190 --> 01:57:56,450
clothes right there's a shelf and I grab

2003
01:58:05,620 --> 01:58:00,200
the two books one of them an interrupted

2004
01:58:10,270 --> 01:58:05,630
journey and the other one was Betty

2005
01:58:12,970 --> 01:58:10,280
Andreessen right okay so the end recent

2006
01:58:15,340 --> 01:58:12,980
affair and almost like whoa okay this is

2007
01:58:17,110 --> 01:58:15,350
kind of cool I didn't have a TV I didn't

2008
01:58:20,020 --> 01:58:17,120
have a radio but now I got a couple of

2009
01:58:21,700 --> 01:58:20,030
books to read and you know so I go back

2010
01:58:26,290 --> 01:58:21,710
to the house and I started reading an

2011
01:58:29,080 --> 01:58:26,300
interrupted journey and that that that's

2012
01:58:31,920 --> 01:58:29,090
right the the the perfect epiphany story

2013
01:58:37,650 --> 01:58:31,930
right that's the life changing event and

2014
01:58:40,210 --> 01:58:37,660
going through that and reading Barney's

2015
01:58:43,480 --> 01:58:40,220
sessions in the book

2016
01:58:44,760 --> 01:58:43,490
and the way that I know that Fowler

2017
01:58:48,160 --> 01:58:44,770
you know these were direct

2018
01:58:54,160 --> 01:58:48,170
transcriptions and and and you know this

2019
01:58:58,030 --> 01:58:54,170
and it moved me I felt Barney's fear and

2020
01:59:00,940 --> 01:58:58,040
his trauma you know that I think that

2021
01:59:03,460 --> 01:59:00,950
everybody resonated with Barney and and

2022
01:59:08,230 --> 01:59:03,470
what he went through didn't they yes

2023
01:59:10,750 --> 01:59:08,240
they they did and if you listen to the

2024
01:59:15,720 --> 01:59:10,760
hypnosis tapes there there is a little

2025
01:59:20,260 --> 01:59:15,730
bit on youtube of Barney and everyone

2026
01:59:23,020 --> 01:59:20,270
identifies with that and feels sympathy

2027
01:59:25,780 --> 01:59:23,030
it's difficult it's difficult to listen

2028
01:59:28,390 --> 01:59:25,790
to I mean he's a he's a grown man he's

2029
01:59:32,950 --> 01:59:28,400
this isn't a child right or anything

2030
01:59:35,800 --> 01:59:32,960
like that this is a grown man reacting

2031
01:59:38,110 --> 01:59:35,810
this way and I think we all felt for him

2032
01:59:42,070 --> 01:59:38,120
it was a it was traumatic traumatic

2033
01:59:44,620 --> 01:59:42,080
sivan a mild word to use for it this

2034
01:59:48,010 --> 01:59:44,630
question comes in from do sky Jimmy

2035
01:59:52,090 --> 01:59:48,020
please ask Kathleen her take on why the

2036
01:59:54,160 --> 01:59:52,100
powers that shouldn't be it is so

2037
01:59:56,830 --> 01:59:54,170
important and necessary to ridicule to

2038
02:00:00,070 --> 01:59:56,840
trivialize to marginalize and officially

2039
02:00:06,970 --> 02:00:00,080
dismiss experiencers what are they

2040
02:00:09,670 --> 02:00:06,980
afraid of again I I think that the

2041
02:00:13,200 --> 02:00:09,680
reason for this is that there is a

2042
02:00:17,050 --> 02:00:13,210
federal policy a government policy that

2043
02:00:20,710 --> 02:00:17,060
we are not going to address this

2044
02:00:22,030 --> 02:00:20,720
question there's nothing that we can do

2045
02:00:25,660 --> 02:00:22,040
to stop it

2046
02:00:29,620 --> 02:00:25,670
and we can't acknowledge it because

2047
02:00:33,510 --> 02:00:29,630
militarily we are helpless and that

2048
02:00:38,200 --> 02:00:33,520
pertains to every country in this world

2049
02:00:41,740 --> 02:00:38,210
we are all helpless to defend against

2050
02:00:47,530 --> 02:00:41,750
that so what do you do you simply ignore

2051
02:00:51,790 --> 02:00:47,540
it if somebody wanted to this comes from

2052
02:00:52,279 --> 02:00:51,800
Scott about what about if if there are

2053
02:00:57,729 --> 02:00:52,289
more

2054
02:01:03,680 --> 02:00:57,739
on ankles too does that signify anything

2055
02:01:07,839 --> 02:01:03,690
it can there it it varies there I have

2056
02:01:13,689 --> 02:01:07,849
seen marks on ankles of individuals who

2057
02:01:15,649 --> 02:01:13,699
are having in contact with negative

2058
02:01:18,470 --> 02:01:15,659
interdimensional entities from the

2059
02:01:20,899 --> 02:01:18,480
astral realm where there are like claw

2060
02:01:23,740 --> 02:01:20,909
marks on their ankles where they're

2061
02:01:28,359 --> 02:01:23,750
being held upside down and taunted

2062
02:01:33,229 --> 02:01:28,369
tortured that's that's another thing but

2063
02:01:37,040 --> 02:01:33,239
there can be marks on on people's angles

2064
02:01:40,279 --> 02:01:37,050
too you know if they've been taken

2065
02:01:44,990 --> 02:01:40,289
sometimes they use the foot area to

2066
02:01:47,990 --> 02:01:45,000
insert an implant and then they do have

2067
02:01:50,990 --> 02:01:48,000
intelligence and so they can travel up

2068
02:01:54,740 --> 02:01:51,000
the body to wherever they want them to

2069
02:02:00,439 --> 02:01:54,750
be and and rest in that position

2070
02:02:06,649 --> 02:02:00,449
how many experiences what is the ratio

2071
02:02:10,700 --> 02:02:06,659
of men to women it seems and and I asked

2072
02:02:12,859 --> 02:02:10,710
this because we look at some of the you

2073
02:02:15,410 --> 02:02:12,869
know the the more publicized cases

2074
02:02:18,020 --> 02:02:15,420
certainly Calvin Parker and and you have

2075
02:02:21,109 --> 02:02:18,030
Travis yeah Betty and Barney you have

2076
02:02:22,490 --> 02:02:21,119
Rendlesham as a another example of

2077
02:02:25,430 --> 02:02:22,500
contact there's not an abduction

2078
02:02:30,700 --> 02:02:25,440
involved but of course there was direct

2079
02:02:33,740 --> 02:02:30,710
contact what's the ratio it's about

2080
02:02:36,169 --> 02:02:33,750
50/50 according to the research studies

2081
02:02:38,419 --> 02:02:36,179
that I have worked done which is very

2082
02:02:42,979 --> 02:02:38,429
interesting that includes free study of

2083
02:02:47,299 --> 02:02:42,989
4,000 people and MUFON study of 516

2084
02:02:50,060 --> 02:02:47,309
people that's 5050 and when you see

2085
02:02:54,560 --> 02:02:50,070
attendees at conferences and we've been

2086
02:02:56,689 --> 02:02:54,570
discussing this this week the attendees

2087
02:03:01,040 --> 02:02:56,699
at conferences the attendees not the

2088
02:03:03,470 --> 02:03:01,050
speakers the attendees I think I think

2089
02:03:05,990 --> 02:03:03,480
there's more women than men I think it

2090
02:03:09,850 --> 02:03:06,000
might be fit 6040

2091
02:03:15,250 --> 02:03:09,860
Rita says it she thinks it's about 50/50

2092
02:03:20,300 --> 02:03:15,260
it's not a male-dominated subject is it

2093
02:03:23,420 --> 02:03:20,310
well I I have to tell you that the the

2094
02:03:27,080 --> 02:03:23,430
male researchers such as Budd Hopkins

2095
02:03:31,940 --> 02:03:27,090
and David Jacobs believed that there

2096
02:03:34,790 --> 02:03:31,950
were more women being taken but now that

2097
02:03:38,690 --> 02:03:34,800
there are women researchers such as

2098
02:03:42,260 --> 02:03:38,700
myself we're finding that there are many

2099
02:03:46,940 --> 02:03:42,270
many men more men coming to us in fact

2100
02:03:50,390 --> 02:03:46,950
than women so you know maybe it's just a

2101
02:03:52,640 --> 02:03:50,400
matter of who people go to see or who's

2102
02:03:56,390 --> 02:03:52,650
willing to step forward and talk about

2103
02:04:02,120 --> 02:03:56,400
it yeah yeah that's interesting that's

2104
02:04:05,510 --> 02:04:02,130
interesting what's next for you oh well

2105
02:04:09,080 --> 02:04:05,520
I'm this weekend I'm going to be at the

2106
02:04:12,230 --> 02:04:09,090
Exeter UFO festival in Exeter New

2107
02:04:15,160 --> 02:04:12,240
Hampshire where I'll be speaking and

2108
02:04:19,790 --> 02:04:15,170
then on Tuesday I'm flying down to

2109
02:04:23,870 --> 02:04:19,800
Phoenix hopefully barring a hurricane

2110
02:04:27,770 --> 02:04:23,880
preventing me from flying but I'll be

2111
02:04:30,710 --> 02:04:27,780
down there to do experience or support

2112
02:04:34,460 --> 02:04:30,720
groups to do a group hypnosis session

2113
02:04:37,040 --> 02:04:34,470
and to do a workshop for experiencers at

2114
02:04:43,100 --> 02:04:37,050
the International UFO Congress

2115
02:04:45,830 --> 02:04:43,110
conference then in early October I am

2116
02:04:51,650 --> 02:04:45,840
going to be working on a cruise ship and

2117
02:04:53,510 --> 02:04:51,660
you can go to UFO cruise comm to get

2118
02:04:56,090 --> 02:04:53,520
more information about that at least

2119
02:04:58,670 --> 02:04:56,100
from San Diego and I think it's going to

2120
02:05:01,340 --> 02:04:58,680
be a lot of fun we have a lot of great

2121
02:05:04,430 --> 02:05:01,350
speakers who are going to be there and

2122
02:05:07,490 --> 02:05:04,440
if you go and you decide to register

2123
02:05:13,520 --> 02:05:07,500
please mention my name and then we're

2124
02:05:18,020 --> 02:05:13,530
having in November a UFO Expo

2125
02:05:20,000 --> 02:05:18,030
I think it's called UFO Con in Central

2126
02:05:23,500 --> 02:05:20,010
Florida in near our land

2127
02:05:26,150 --> 02:05:23,510
go and I'll be speaking there as well

2128
02:05:28,160 --> 02:05:26,160
fantastic Kathleen thank you so much and

2129
02:05:31,670 --> 02:05:28,170
I look forward to the next book and of

2130
02:05:34,070 --> 02:05:31,680
course hanging out with you what you

2131
02:05:38,030 --> 02:05:34,080
have done for this community and of

2132
02:05:40,400 --> 02:05:38,040
course Staunton too as well and I can't

2133
02:05:42,020 --> 02:05:40,410
let you get away tonight without saying

2134
02:05:44,090 --> 02:05:42,030
thank you to Stanton and and the work

2135
02:05:46,990 --> 02:05:44,100
that you two did together over the years

2136
02:05:50,630 --> 02:05:47,000
too as well we miss them so much and

2137
02:05:52,250 --> 02:05:50,640
yeah keep doing your thing and I look

2138
02:05:55,520 --> 02:05:52,260
forward to our next conversation thank

2139
02:05:57,440 --> 02:05:55,530
you so much I do as well it was such a

2140
02:06:00,290 --> 02:05:57,450
pleasure thank you so much

2141
02:06:03,350 --> 02:06:00,300
Thank You Kathleen and Kathleen's

2142
02:06:06,380 --> 02:06:03,360
website is right there at Jimmy Church

2143
02:06:09,250 --> 02:06:06,390
radio.com you can head straight over for

2144
02:06:12,020 --> 02:06:09,260
her book you can order it right now

2145
02:06:14,360 --> 02:06:12,030
extraterrestrial contact the order from

2146
02:06:16,130 --> 02:06:14,370
a website you get an autographed copy

2147
02:06:17,510 --> 02:06:16,140
this is fade to black I'm gonna take a

2148
02:06:21,070 --> 02:06:17,520
quick break I'll be right back after

2149
02:06:21,080 --> 02:06:59,280
[Music]

2150
02:07:04,600 --> 02:07:01,540
all right welcome back

2151
02:07:07,540 --> 02:07:04,610
fade to black tomorrow night dr. Lin

2152
02:07:12,550 --> 02:07:07,550
khatai is here and we're gonna be

2153
02:07:15,700 --> 02:07:12,560
discussing the Phoenix lights and this

2154
02:07:19,480 --> 02:07:15,710
is the thing for me about the Phoenix

2155
02:07:24,310 --> 02:07:19,490
lights I was in Phoenix that week and I

2156
02:07:26,670 --> 02:07:24,320
was at the Hard Rock Cafe that night and

2157
02:07:31,120 --> 02:07:26,680
the reason why I remember all of this is

2158
02:07:33,460 --> 02:07:31,130
and we were out on anyway that part of

2159
02:07:37,690 --> 02:07:33,470
it doesn't matter but but I'm in Phoenix

2160
02:07:40,480 --> 02:07:37,700
and on business and I get back

2161
02:07:42,340 --> 02:07:40,490
it was a Friday night and I get back I

2162
02:07:47,050 --> 02:07:42,350
land at Burbank Airport I get home with

2163
02:07:48,760 --> 02:07:47,060
my luggage drop my luggage and I went

2164
02:07:53,410 --> 02:07:48,770
into the living room turned on the TV

2165
02:07:57,220 --> 02:07:53,420
and it was on the news and the news pops

2166
02:08:00,520 --> 02:07:57,230
up and it says UFO sighting last night

2167
02:08:03,010 --> 02:08:00,530
in Phoenix and I'm looking at the screen

2168
02:08:05,530 --> 02:08:03,020
you know it was you know the the the the

2169
02:08:07,240 --> 02:08:05,540
video that were so familiar with you

2170
02:08:09,700 --> 02:08:07,250
know with the with the silhouette of the

2171
02:08:14,770 --> 02:08:09,710
mountains and I'm looking at that and

2172
02:08:18,400 --> 02:08:14,780
I'm like say say what and I had you know

2173
02:08:23,560 --> 02:08:18,410
I just arrived from Phoenix I was there

2174
02:08:26,710 --> 02:08:23,570
I didn't see it and I am so I look back

2175
02:08:29,050 --> 02:08:26,720
and I think about that so much that that

2176
02:08:34,330 --> 02:08:29,060
extraordinary and it was all over the

2177
02:08:40,030 --> 02:08:34,340
city right and I did not see it and I

2178
02:08:42,760 --> 02:08:40,040
don't know why with all the driving and

2179
02:08:44,650 --> 02:08:42,770
everything that I was doing I did not

2180
02:08:47,680 --> 02:08:44,660
see it neither did anybody else that I

2181
02:08:52,540 --> 02:08:47,690
was with but I was there that night and

2182
02:08:55,750 --> 02:08:52,550
I keep replaying it in my mind I know

2183
02:08:58,960 --> 02:08:55,760
exactly where I was and what I was doing

2184
02:09:03,700 --> 02:08:58,970
and how I missed one of the the greatest

2185
02:09:06,640 --> 02:09:03,710
sightings of in history I it still blows

2186
02:09:10,510 --> 02:09:06,650
my mind and and that's why I enjoy

2187
02:09:11,800 --> 02:09:10,520
having dr. Lynn cation with this each

2188
02:09:13,390 --> 02:09:11,810
night to to

2189
02:09:15,640 --> 02:09:13,400
countess I'm not gonna go and repeat

2190
02:09:17,530 --> 02:09:15,650
this again tomorrow night that I was

2191
02:09:18,130 --> 02:09:17,540
there and missed it because it bums me

2192
02:09:20,530 --> 02:09:18,140
out

2193
02:09:24,130 --> 02:09:20,540
so I'm just gonna let you know that now

2194
02:09:27,040 --> 02:09:24,140
I was there I missed it

2195
02:09:30,340 --> 02:09:27,050
I I still can't believe it I remember

2196
02:09:34,390 --> 02:09:30,350
sitting all night at a table with my

2197
02:09:36,910 --> 02:09:34,400
friends and and we didn't see it Rob

2198
02:09:39,970 --> 02:09:36,920
Halford was with me that night Alice

2199
02:09:44,710 --> 02:09:39,980
Cooper was we are at a record release

2200
02:09:54,060 --> 02:09:44,720
party Alice Cooper was there Stevie

2201
02:09:56,200 --> 02:09:54,070
Nicks was there none of us looked up III

2202
02:09:59,710 --> 02:09:56,210
still can't believe it so tomorrow night

2203
02:10:02,680 --> 02:09:59,720
dr. Lynn khatai it will be night number

2204
02:10:03,490 --> 02:10:02,690
four of our amazing women week here on

2205
02:10:05,620 --> 02:10:03,500
fade to black

2206
02:10:09,370 --> 02:10:05,630
what a great night no Fator night

2207
02:10:12,250 --> 02:10:09,380
tomorrow night miss marks for whatever

2208
02:10:14,860 --> 02:10:12,260
reason this is three weeks in a row with

2209
02:10:16,660 --> 02:10:14,870
no fader night but we will have it next

2210
02:10:18,220 --> 02:10:16,670
week I promise we've got a great week

2211
02:10:20,860 --> 02:10:18,230
lined up for next week too by the way

2212
02:10:23,500 --> 02:10:20,870
this is fade to black I am your host

2213
02:10:26,170 --> 02:10:23,510
Jimmy Church I want to thank Kathleen

2214
02:10:28,720 --> 02:10:26,180
Martin tonight for another amazing

2215
02:10:32,110 --> 02:10:28,730
conversation beta black's executive

2216
02:10:33,970 --> 02:10:32,120
producer is Rita Kumari on shows

2217
02:10:35,740 --> 02:10:33,980
produced by him J Palmer Renee Dennis

2218
02:10:38,020 --> 02:10:35,750
and Bob announces our Steve Hart achieve

2219
02:10:40,930 --> 02:10:38,030
a total mark D Cole our webmaster is

2220
02:10:44,440 --> 02:10:40,940
Drew the geek music doug aldrich intro

2221
02:10:46,650 --> 02:10:44,450
space boys space boy music calm fade to

2222
02:10:51,340 --> 02:10:46,660
black is produced by kjsurya productions

2223
02:10:53,590 --> 02:10:51,350
kanna skatey ra the planet broadcast

2224
02:10:55,210 --> 02:10:53,600
zona copyright a 2019 by fade to black

2225
02:10:57,250 --> 02:10:55,220
in the game changer network

2226
02:10:59,380 --> 02:10:57,260
it cannot be rebroadcast downloaded

2227
02:11:01,390 --> 02:10:59,390
copied or used anywhere the known

2228
02:11:03,280 --> 02:11:01,400
universe without written permission from

2229
02:11:03,510 --> 02:11:03,290
fade to black or the game change in that

2230
02:11:05,970 --> 02:11:03,520
way

2231
02:11:06,600 --> 02:11:05,980
I'm your host Jimmy Church Thank You

2232
02:11:08,700 --> 02:11:06,610
Kathleen

2233
02:11:14,010 --> 02:11:08,710
Martin tomorrow night dr. Lincoln tie

2234
02:11:15,570 --> 02:11:14,020
until then everybody be saved go factly

2235
02:11:24,570 --> 02:11:15,580
taffy